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Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

engadget.com

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Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#31

Post by joebadmo »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #27
ljlolel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features.…

I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much…

You're almost certainly right that iOS devices probably aren't going to get a hardware back button, but I disagree with you on the usefulness of hw back buttons.

Generally, if I come to an activity from another app, it's to do one specific thing and then I want to go back to the original app. There are certainly cases when I want to stay in the app I got sent to and then hit back and find myself in the original app. The path then to the app I want is the same as always: home button, app shortcut.

Conversely, on iOS, what happens when I get sent to a different app and then want to go back to the original app? Home button, app shortcut. In my experience, the android way addresses the more common scenario.

Also, there are builds of android (HTC's Sense UI, I believe) that do have notifications on the lock screen. Not only that, but the lock screen is configurable, so you can add shortcuts that, when you drag them to the unlock field, take you directly to the app. This is a neat feature that I hope eventually makes it into android proper.

EDIT: Hm, this is factual and fairly uncontroversial. I suppose getting downvoted sometimes is just an inevitable consequence of participating in any dicussion involving iOS and Android? Oh well.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#32

Post by joebadmo »

rimantas wrote: post #24
ljlolel wrote: post #11

EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S wi…

The subtle (and not so subtle to others) difference is that iOS will have these features polished. Android just has them.

I generally prefer to have unpolished features available to me to use or not use. If they are polished enough to be useable for me, then I use them. If not, then I don't. I like being able to decide. Which is why I generally prefer android to iOS, I guess. Many others obviously prefer otherwise.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#33

Post by tptacek »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #23
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to development on a closed system and platform (iOS). Sure, it has its fair share of advantages, but then you also have to deal with shenanigans like this.

Being closed isn't relevant here. If Ubuntu built this feature into the OS the same thing would happen to 3rd parties. The lesson is about hitching your wagon to one platform. Marco has been an outspoken "iOS only" developer and part of me wants to see him eat crow for taking that position. But that's not fair, at the end of the day he's a smart guy and he'll either adjust or come up with another killer idea. He made…

What does this have to do with him being iOS-only? If he build iP for Android, wouldn't the overwhelming majority of his revenue would still come from iOS, and be just as threatened?

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#34

Post by YooLi »

steveb wrote: post #26

Apple is trying to build a massive moat around their iOS/OSX ecosystem. If they can execute, it will be difficult for competitors to convert iOS users to other platforms. -Applications synced across multiple devices -music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content) -Integration with iTouch/iPad/iPhone docks and accessories -iMessage/Facetime lock in for user accounts -Gamecenter achievements -…

I see it more as adding value I want instead of a moat/lock in. If integration in Apple's ecosystem gets me Applications synced across multiple devices, music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content), etc., count me in.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#35

Post by MatthewPhillips »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #27
ljlolel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features.…

I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much…

The Android back button works exactly the way it should. For example, if you go to Gmail from Twitter and press back, I DO want to go back to Twitter, not to my inbox.

But you're right, there isn't a good way to go to an app's home screen if you enter from a specific activity. That's something that needs to be looked at, but not at the expense of changing the excellent back button functionality.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#36

Post by MatthewPhillips »

tptacek wrote: post #33
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being closed isn't relevant here. If Ubuntu built this feature into the OS the same thing would happen to 3rd parties. The lesson is about hitching your wagon to one platform. Marco has been an outspoken "iOS only" developer and part of me wants to see him eat crow for taking that position. But that's not fair, at the end of the day he's a smart guy and he'll either adjust or come up with another killer idea. He made…

What does this have to do with him being iOS-only? If he build iP for Android, wouldn't the overwhelming majority of his revenue would still come from iOS, and be just as threatened?

They would still be threatened, but less so, because being multi-platform is a feature that differentiates from Apple's. I'm pretty sure Read it Later isn't sweating as much about this, because they have the single best Android app and the single best Web app of this category.

They also have a very good iPhone and iPad app that some iOS-only users will have a less of an interest in. But for others they can sell on larger availability than what Apple offers.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#37

Post by tptacek »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with him being iOS-only? If he build iP for Android, wouldn't the overwhelming majority of his revenue would still come from iOS, and be just as threatened?

They would still be threatened, but less so, because being multi-platform is a feature that differentiates from Apple's. I'm pretty sure Read it Later isn't sweating as much about this, because they have the single best Android app and the single best Web app of this category. They also have a very good iPhone and iPad app that some iOS-only users will have a less of an interest in. But for others they can sell on la…

I don't think that's how it works. At the end of the day, what matters is his revenue graph. If almost all his revenue comres from iOS, and Reading List muddies the water enough to cut into that, the "cross platform" checkbox isn't going to save him, because it's not relevant to the majority of people who pay him.

I don't think iP is doomed, for what it's worth; I just don't think this is the answer.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#38

Post by MatthewPhillips »

tptacek wrote: post #37
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would still be threatened, but less so, because being multi-platform is a feature that differentiates from Apple's. I'm pretty sure Read it Later isn't sweating as much about this, because they have the single best Android app and the single best Web app of this category. They also have a very good iPhone and iPad app that some iOS-only users will have a less of an interest in. But for others they can sell on la…

I don't think that's how it works. At the end of the day, what matters is his revenue graph. If almost all his revenue comres from iOS, and Reading List muddies the water enough to cut into that, the "cross platform" checkbox isn't going to save him, because it's not relevant to the majority of people who pay him. I don't think iP is doomed, for what it's worth; I just don't think this is the answer.

Almost all of his revenue comes from iOS because he almost exclusively develops for iOS. How much this stings is directly proportionate to how much he's invested into this one platform; in his case it's near 100%. In Evernote's case, they could (if they were in this position) take the blow, pivot a little if necessary, and continue moving forward.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#39

Post by tptacek »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's how it works. At the end of the day, what matters is his revenue graph. If almost all his revenue comres from iOS, and Reading List muddies the water enough to cut into that, the "cross platform" checkbox isn't going to save him, because it's not relevant to the majority of people who pay him. I don't think iP is doomed, for what it's worth; I just don't think this is the answer.

Almost all of his revenue comes from iOS because he almost exclusively develops for iOS. How much this stings is directly proportionate to how much he's invested into this one platform; in his case it's near 100%. In Evernote's case, they could (if they were in this position) take the blow, pivot a little if necessary, and continue moving forward.

The subtext here is that people with cross-platform apps tend to report that the majority of their revenue comes from iOS, so that comment isn't really responsive.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#40

Post by rimantas »

kenjackson wrote: post #14

iOS5 was surprisingly underwhelming, given how long its been since they shipped iOS4. This certainly won't stop the train known as Android. I really don't see this changing the iOS sales trajectory upward at all.

Do you imply that current trajectory is downward? And Apple does not sell iOS, it sells iPhone, iPod touch and iPads with that OS. I am sure iPad sales are not going to go down any time soon.
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