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Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

nytimes.com

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Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#31

Post by jawzz »

DC-3 wrote: post #11
awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

Did it ever occur to you at all that people might value education for its own sake and not for potential financial yield alone?

Every reply to you is repeating the same thing and they’re all wrong. Woe on the next great sociologist, philosopher, or artist who gets discouraged from study because “just do CS so you can make money” or “just go to the library it’s literally the same thing as four years of training under experts in the field and discussion with other smart young people.”

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#32

Post by awillen »

minitoar wrote: post #16
DC-3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you at all that people might value education for its own sake and not for potential financial yield alone?

I don’t think most people going to 3rd-tier college to study humanities are doing it out of some abstract love of education. They’re doing it because every adult or counselor in their life told them they have to go to some college no matter what.

One million percent yes.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#33

Post by akhilcacharya »

leetcrew wrote: post #5
lumost wrote: post #2

Colleges should have more price stratification than they do. At present the price difference between MIT and Umass Amherst out of state is only 41%. Both will leave a student heavily in debt to the tune of 150-300k, the difference likely doesn't materially matter to the student as they are looking at is as a ticket to a better life.

> Both will leave a student heavily in debt to the tune of 150-300k unless you have a very weird financial situation, no US student is going into anything like that much debt to go to either of those two schools. it looks like you got those numbers by just taking the tuition and multiplying it by four. both schools offer substantial aid packages for eligible families. the average yearly tuition contribution for MIT i…

I don’t think anybody thinks going is expensive, the expensive part is getting in, something fundamentally out of reach by design for 99.9% of the population and 95% of the applicant pool.

Something is really rotten with this country if the only tools to get ahead are a 5% shot at a “better life” (though people seem far too politically correct to provide a counter factual outcome if you don’t get into an elite institution).

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#34

Post by twoslide »

This probably just reflects greater uncertainty in the application process due to lack of standardized test scores. In other years, have a better sense of where they stand and can strategize appropriately (i.e. a few aspirational applications and a few safety schools). This year things are much less clear. It may not be a long term trend, or may not accelerate a long term trend.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#35

Post by borski »

colinmhayes wrote: post #14
leetcrew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both will leave a student heavily in debt to the tune of 150-300k unless you have a very weird financial situation, no US student is going into anything like that much debt to go to either of those two schools. it looks like you got those numbers by just taking the tuition and multiplying it by four. both schools offer substantial aid packages for eligible families. the average yearly tuition contribution for MIT i…

Plenty of middle class families making low to mid 100k but not contributing to their children's tuition bill because they live in HCOL area. But yes, low income students don't pay.

“Plenty,” sure. But not a majority or anything. The median family income in the US is something like 68kb

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#36

Post by stolenmerch »

Relevant: https://www.profgalloway.com/uss-university

Scott Galloway made a prediction last summer of what colleges and universities will thrive, survive, struggle, or face challenges given the current situation. Basically, the higher ed market will consolidate around more elite schools.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#37

Post by endisneigh »

per usual I believe the issue here is that the government has been subsidizing schools which have created strange distortions. if Harvard were strictly private and received no government subsidies, funding or advantage a few things would happen:

1) poor people probably wouldn't be able to attend

2) it would be substantially more expensive

3) the acceptance rate would be much higher

ideally this would result in schools like UMass Amherst (which ironically is the best public university in Massachusetts - weird considering other states have better state flagships, but that's another issue) being able to compete far more effectively.

why would a smart poor kid ever go to UMass when you could go to Harvard for free? it has never made sense that you get better financial return from say, MIT, even though it costs the same as RandomPrivateU.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#38

Post by minitoar »

jawzz wrote: post #31
DC-3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you at all that people might value education for its own sake and not for potential financial yield alone?

Every reply to you is repeating the same thing and they’re all wrong. Woe on the next great sociologist, philosopher, or artist who gets discouraged from study because “just do CS so you can make money” or “just go to the library it’s literally the same thing as four years of training under experts in the field and discussion with other smart young people.”

You are wrong. Not every reply is saying that.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#39

Post by ryandrake »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #25

I sense that the fundamental purpose for going to College has changed from "getting an education" to "building your brand" as an individual. I don't work in Human Resources, but as a software developer I do spend a lot of time around my company's recruiters and I'm involved in the hiring process. A candidate's alma mater has an outsized impact on the likelihood they will advance to the next step of the hiring process…

> Most people people don't realize just how much name recognition matters when sifting through resumes.

I think most people do realize it, which is why we're seeing what's being written about in the article. People realize if you merely want to be educated, you can do that for cheap or free anywhere, but nobody in HR screening resumes cares if you're educated. They care that you have name-brand pedigree. I remember fighting for a candidate who I thought was super smart and could get things done, but he was from a mid-tier State school and not from Stanford and that was the end of it. It's very classist and ugly. If I graduated today from the school I graduated from in the mid-90s, I wouldn't have a job either.

As we all know, this is not just happening in education: All of society is bifurcating into a few winners, and a lot of losers, and a shrinking number in the middle. Everything is has become a slug-fest where the many compete with each other in a high-stakes game for the few viable good opportunities, leaving the rest in ruin.

Re: Interest surges in top colleges, while struggling ones scrape for applicants

#40

Post by teeray »

DC-3 wrote: post #11
awillen wrote: post #7

I think this is generally a good thing. I believe there are really two positive things that can come out of going to college - either you get a name-brand degree that opens doors and gets your resume looked at, or you get useful skills that enable you to go down a particular career path (e.g. CS degree). Obviously in some cases it'll be both. The reality is it's really tough to make any case that a humanities degree…

Did it ever occur to you at all that people might value education for its own sake and not for potential financial yield alone?

This is certainly true, but the harsh reality is that there are “job training” degrees and luxury degrees. If you have all your other financial ducks aligned, I don’t mind if you drive a Mercedes or decide to get a degree you can’t possibly hope to get a job with. Otherwise it’s just financially irresponsible.
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