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Apple is professional, the web is amateur

dave.is

31–40 of 61 posts

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#31

Apple is driven by a philosophy of design , like industrial design and graphic design, but not necessarily craftsmanship, although craftsmanship often goes into design. As long as Steve Jobs is alive, Apple won't give up on design. Design is what sets Apple apart, not craftsmanship. It's why you see the Macintosh in the MoMA but not a Compaq.

Make that a philosophy of purely visual design. OMG, aluminum, round corners, and animations. MacOS did not have a defining part in the digital revolution of the 90s, their market capitalization is their biggest success and that is mainly due to the US market--think old people and people with significant disposable income.

I know, I know, but I love to hate. And don't start me on Facebook.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#32
post #13

> It's common knowledge that Apple doesn't get the web in general and social in particular. It is? > In iMovie, you can take your professional looking photos and stitch them together with the Ken Burns effect. The name says it all right there. So you acknowledge that iLife is a counter to your point, and your only refutation is that there is a Ken Burns effect? I don't get it. The premise of this very short article s…

The other social failing I see pointed to is Game Center. Which is yet another separate social network that Apple runs, that doesn't particularly improve on the third party solutions, and is nowhere near as good as something like XBox Live. (Interestingly, Game Center doesn't look particularly professional. Apple tends to aim a bit low when they do aim for consumers, IMHO.)

Ah, found a link: http://www.macworld.com/article/159833/2011/05/game_center_f...

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#33

    "But wait a second," you say. "What about iLife? Isn't that all about amateur content?" Not quite. iLife helps normal people create things that feel professional.
This is the definition of amateur. Notably, you can spot things done in their software, Keynote being a glaring example. It has made a template of what a presentation is supposed to look like on a mac.

See when Jobs gives a keynote using Keynote wearing a black turtleneck, we recognize this signature. When your boss holds a meeting with a presentation in keynote with that same or similarly light faded colour background and bold white text, you recognize this as imitation.

Apple have fantastic engineers and fantastic designers and their products reflect a culture that prides craftsmanship, detail and perfection. But to say the web is amateur is to deny the wealth of originality and expression that spreads from it. Youtube has a direct cam to site, record and upload thing going because it enables people to be expressive. They keyword here is "enable" and it's in their advantage to promote the creating of original content by focusing on the enabling factors.

I think the article addresses the problem in a flawed perspective. Facebook being a good counter example. The problem with Apple is probably better tied with their culture. Apple is not social, and until they socialize they will not know what it takes to enable socializing.

A lot of people here are pointing out that MySpace was the amateur failure of the social web, further getting away from idea that social success == amateur, but let's not forget that MySpace was once, many years ago, "the shit" and only got its pedestal kicked out from under it when other sites offered better enabling factors (read: features) to socialize between friends. Sure, MySpace was fuck ugly, because not everyone's creativity is equal! but to say everyone switched to facebook solely because facebook looked more professional? I don't take that. (eh, i guess it was built better to - damn myspace always had fucking down time - whatever)

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point wasn't that less professional looking websites > succeed over more professional looking sites. Besides that your point is not true I fail to see how it applies to Apple. Should they remake apple.com to something horribly amateurish, and then they somehow succeed? Are they failing? And I bet that if some website which looks amateur succeeds over more professionally done the looks is not the key to success.

No they're not failing over all at all. They're just failing at web stuff (which they keep trying at). I wouldn't change a thing with their hardware business, and as a result I wouldn't change apple.com. I would change me.com though, because it's not a success by any definition of the term. Also, my point was not about whether a site is amateur or professionally done. It's whether the focus is on amateur or professio…

I still don't get what are you talking about. What is that "web stuff" that Apple is failing? What has me.com to do with content, professional or amateur? It is not some blogging platform.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#36
The salient point in this article aside (I agree with the author that Apple doesn't get the P2P nature of the web), I think Ping failed for a different reason:

I don't trust Apple knowing what music I have (ripped). They are too close to the recording industry which has spent years suing everyday folks like me to prop up their dying business model.

Sure, I know Apple won't "turn me in" (would be bad for business) for my shady music collection (most of which is NOT available in the US, btw) but I don't want to take the chance.

The fact that Apple seems to segregate the "professionals/industry" from the "amatuers/consumers" only adds to the dilemma that Ping has yet to resolve.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#37

Apple is driven by a philosophy of design , like industrial design and graphic design, but not necessarily craftsmanship, although craftsmanship often goes into design. As long as Steve Jobs is alive, Apple won't give up on design. Design is what sets Apple apart, not craftsmanship. It's why you see the Macintosh in the MoMA but not a Compaq.

Make that a philosophy of purely visual design. OMG, aluminum, round corners, and animations. MacOS did not have a defining part in the digital revolution of the 90s, their market capitalization is their biggest success and that is mainly due to the US market--think old people and people with significant disposable income. I know, I know, but I love to hate. And don't start me on Facebook.

You've never taken apart a PowerMac G5. It was simply elegant for it's time... the innards are more beautiful than the exterior.

Apple is famous for lots of serious attention to detail that involve not just visual/glitz but usability.

Design is definitely the correct word.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#39
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's this part that's going to get people disagreeing with you: "No more pixel perfect web apps that feel like desktop apps, no more sites that look like glossy brochures, and embracing chaos and amateurism over order and professionalism. It is going to be very hard."

I just don't see his point. Why go ugly/messy when elegant/perfect is working so well? OK, so Ping isn't doing well. Seemed a "me too!" gesture in a market saturated with social networking apps, a messy application for a slick product. No point in changing a paradigm that works, only to garner greater market coverage with subsequent much less penetration. If Apple's gonna "go ugly", they have to compete with "ugly" a…

I'd also attribute Ping's failure to 1) Failing to get an agreement for Facebook Connect in time for the launch and 2) Largely ignoring the portion of your music library not purchased from Apple.

In this day and age, when I join a new network I want it to be easy to find my existing "friends" on said network. SC2 nailed this - I was playing with friends within minutes of my first login. Ping, on the other hand... I saw a couple updates from friends and a lot of more-or-less fluff from Yo-Yo Ma. OH! and the spam. Sweet monkey jesus there was a lot of spam the first week. Not exactly a compelling social experience.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#40
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's this part that's going to get people disagreeing with you: "No more pixel perfect web apps that feel like desktop apps, no more sites that look like glossy brochures, and embracing chaos and amateurism over order and professionalism. It is going to be very hard."

I just don't see his point. Why go ugly/messy when elegant/perfect is working so well? OK, so Ping isn't doing well. Seemed a "me too!" gesture in a market saturated with social networking apps, a messy application for a slick product. No point in changing a paradigm that works, only to garner greater market coverage with subsequent much less penetration. If Apple's gonna "go ugly", they have to compete with "ugly" a…

    Why go ugly/messy when elegant/perfect 
    is working so well?
That wasn't his point - his point is more like the "Cathedral and the Bazaar", but recreated and worded improperly.

The point is that many web services do not have a clear vision and their trajectory is set by the people using it, favoring content created by amateurs (as in people that don't get paid for their work and that take pictures by themselves, not helped by professionals with hugely expensive lenses attached to full-frame cameras and strobes).

I also disagree that elegant/perfect works versus having a community, which trumps all other aspects. And I agree that elegant/perfect is cool and I like cool, but I prefer Amazon over any other online store because Amazon has real honest-to-god reviews.

    Why be worse, when you're famous for best?
Yeah, but even mighty Apple that barely escaped bankruptcy and now has surpassed Microsoft in value; even Apple is not immune to the innovator's dilemma.

The example provided is good - and no, Google Buzz and Google +1 are a "me too!". When the second search result for "Apple Ping" is "How to remove ping from itunes" that's just plain sad.

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