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Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#31

Post by mytailorisrich »

kjakm wrote: post #16
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

The UK has (first-dose) vaccinated close to a quarter of the population now. Given the vast population difference between it and Israel it seems to be doing pretty well too.

Yes, currently the UK is vaccinating at rates of up to 600,000 per day. That's about 3x the top daily rate of, say, France.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#32

Post by chimprich »

ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

Short answer: apparently, yes. The process is too unique and new to just be replicated in other factories.

Derek Lowe has an in-depth and readable explanation:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/my...

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#33

Post by rock_artist »

scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

To give some balance. Just as I got my second jab and waiting the 10min needed for surveillance. (Tel Aviv, Israel)

> Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously.

It's a mixed situation here.

* Israel supposedly paid 3 times more than others per shot (but if it works, it's cheaper than the economy losses).

* Israel has free public health care.

* All public health care databases are connected.

* Pfizer gets very detailed annoymized dataset.

* centralization means the health care also hospitalization covered by health care and connected to database.

* Israel is a small country. I can easily cover it by 7hrs drive bottom top.

All those helped get enough jabs.

Yet, There's enough population that don't social distance / comply to basics such as wearing a mask (even indoor!). Some population even did huge events during lockdowns with zero enforcement.

Hope this gives some proportion.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#34

Post by pa7x1 »

scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Most developed countries seem to be able to deploy close to 100% of the vaccines provided so far, modulo whatever strategy they have chosen regarding keeping some amount of second doses in storage. So that doesn't seem to be bottleneck.

Israel simply paid more and bought a larger amount of vaccines delivered earlier. Which is smart but it's not a strategy that all countries can replicate, not because we cannot afford it but simply because there is a bottleneck in production. There is not enough vaccines for all no matter how much we pay, so we would end up competing in price for no real speed up.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#35

Post by kharak »

scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Isn't the vaccination distribution a zero sum game between nation states? Supply is limited. Some countries will get it sooner than others. Europe lost the bit against several other powers. Not to my surprise, I must say.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#36

Post by endymi0n »

scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

While I agree with the sentiment, don‘t forget the elephant in the room is vaccine supply. It‘s just not arbitrarily scaleable and most vaccination centers in my EU country are sitting around idle.

What some describe as smart moves by Israel is also rather selfish. It’s made possible by the fact that they are a rather small country that has a large support by major powers for historical reasons, but they made a pact with the devil here: They simply outbid everyone so the vaccine goes to them INSTEAD somewhere else (including Palestine). They sold all kinds of patient data on top in order to get where they are now.

Vaccinating the 100x larger EU is simply a different beast. If the EU had been as "smart" as Israel here and bid as much, don‘t forget we‘d all be stuck at 5% vaccination speaking in absolute numbers of vaccine availability.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#37

Post by tobessebot »

pa7x1 wrote: post #34
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Most developed countries seem to be able to deploy close to 100% of the vaccines provided so far, modulo whatever strategy they have chosen regarding keeping some amount of second doses in storage. So that doesn't seem to be bottleneck. Israel simply paid more and bought a larger amount of vaccines delivered earlier. Which is smart but it's not a strategy that all countries can replicate, not because we cannot afford…

I think you'd be seeing some improvements as we are seeing some upward adjustments in production capacity projections on a 3-6 month timeframe now that everyone is spending so much to get additional doses because of political pressure, but it wouldn't be nearly enough to change the situation drastically as some have been claiming.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#38

Post by mytailorisrich »

ilkkao wrote: post #29
ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

I've been wondering this myself too. Lockdowns are so expensive that I'd assume every unconventional method to expand the production is taken into use. The situation is bad but not so bad that competitors could be forced to work together it seems. I expect that the amount of angry people in EU will peak in spring or early summer when UK, US, and Israel are mostly back to normal and we are not.

> The situation is bad but not so bad that competitors could be forced to work together it seems.

And yet this should have been the plan from the very beginning.

Considering the vast numbers needed in Europe and the whole world, forcing all available production facilities to produce vaccines should have been part of the plan.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#39

Post by abhinav22 »

amrx431 wrote: post #30
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

India. It is an enigma that why is India's response to Covid-19 gets ignored. India to date has vaccinated more people than Israel and has one of the least CFR per capita.

Very proud of the great success of India here. Was very worried they would have a calamity but they have managed it better than anyone else in my opinion

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#40

Post by throwaway4good »

ilkkao wrote: post #29
ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

I've been wondering this myself too. Lockdowns are so expensive that I'd assume every unconventional method to expand the production is taken into use. The situation is bad but not so bad that competitors could be forced to work together it seems. I expect that the amount of angry people in EU will peak in spring or early summer when UK, US, and Israel are mostly back to normal and we are not.

The American factories are only producing for Americans. The European ones are producing for the whole world.
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