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Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

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Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big oil has been funding anti - nuclear and anti - hydro efforts for years. The truth is that far more people die from pollution from fossil fuels than have ever died from nuclear or hydro.

That is rather self fulfilling, though. We produce and use significantly more fossil fuels than we have nuclear or hydro power. If the whole world was run by hydro and nuclear, and fossil fuels were relegated to somewhere between non-existent or hyper-regulated, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine the reverse as well.

https://youtu.be/Jzfpyo-q-RM

Edit: Further reading if you prefer it to videos. https://sites.google.com/view/sources-nuclear-death-toll/

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent 12 months of last 10 years (~1 month/year) at same region, on motorbike, too. I could confirm your observations. BTW, 95% of these dams are Chinese one and exports electricity to China, not to be used by locals. China build hospitals and some roads for this, which is good, but all these projects doesn't have any ecological expertise in it. And China DOESN'T CARE of course. It is new colonialism, really.

> China build hospitals and some roads for this, which is good, but all these projects doesn't have any ecological expertise in it. And China DOESN'T CARE of course. But isn't the honesty refreshing? They don't come with guns or bibles or any notion of superiority. Just preying on the weak willed. I call that good business.

You're getting downvoted, for good reason. You're wrong on at least one point. "Any notion of superiority".

One thing I witnessed first hand in Laos is that China is building a very long road south. As they come in and build dams and the roads, the construction workers also move their families into the region. They buy up land from locals and then they bring a whole new set of expectations, including driving prices up.

The notion of superiority is what is driving all of this. "We are better than you, we will build you a dam, buy up all your land, give you some of the electricity and take the rest for ourselves."

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#33
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big oil has been funding anti - nuclear and anti - hydro efforts for years. The truth is that far more people die from pollution from fossil fuels than have ever died from nuclear or hydro.

That is rather self fulfilling, though. We produce and use significantly more fossil fuels than we have nuclear or hydro power. If the whole world was run by hydro and nuclear, and fossil fuels were relegated to somewhere between non-existent or hyper-regulated, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine the reverse as well.

I believe those figures are per-capita as well.

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China build hospitals and some roads for this, which is good, but all these projects doesn't have any ecological expertise in it. And China DOESN'T CARE of course. But isn't the honesty refreshing? They don't come with guns or bibles or any notion of superiority. Just preying on the weak willed. I call that good business.

You're getting downvoted, for good reason. You're wrong on at least one point. "Any notion of superiority". One thing I witnessed first hand in Laos is that China is building a very long road south. As they come in and build dams and the roads, the construction workers also move their families into the region. They buy up land from locals and then they bring a whole new set of expectations, including driving prices u…

I don't give two left feet and a chicken for downvotes/upvotes. What matters is discussion. At least to me.

On the point of "notion of superiority" I will admit the phrasing is incorrect. Every group thinks they are better than those not in their group from your local book club to whole nation states.

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#35

I used to like reading newspapers from across the spectrum. They had information and facts leavened with reasoned opinions, balanced perspectives. Reading the news media these days is no different than reading some rando on Twitter. Tragic it has come to do this. The NY Times had a truly abominable series of articles on these all focusing on the "negligence" of the current government on building dams. Take this one f…

NYT might be a paragon of journalism for American issues but it is hardly a good source for news about countries like China or India.

I have been following their international coverage for some time and what they have mastered is the art of misleading through omission. Whether that is intended or just by virtue of hiring journalists and op-ed writers from the same echo chamber, that I don't know. It is smart in a way actually, as they rarely write outright lies. What they will do instead is just cover the points of one side, keep doing it through several articles and someone following NYT will have a very different idea of an event.

I am not sure how NYT is gauged inside China as I can't read their social media but I am surprised NYT is treated like sacrosanct by Indians with their critical articles of the establishment being widely shared there. Just look at the coverage of the farmer protests in NYT, Guardian etc.

So when these same platforms complain about Facebook eating their lunch and allowing fake news, I have no sympathy for them as their holier than thou attitude for their own content is just off putting.

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#36

This is hardly above the nebulous drivel of the articles that popped up during the week of the flood, just dressed up with a professional veneer. It manages to sneak in a clickbait headline, and despite the promise, you don't get to find out the cause, just three contributing theories. Also, did you know dams are bad? The terrain in these Himalayan states is rough. Steep river valleys, no flat land, and towns clingin…

> hardly ecological havens

Ecologically the harshest environments are also the most vulnerable to small changes. Plants and insects at the edges of survivability only need what we might consider a minor change to push them to extinction. Slow, low, small growth is often boring and ignored by us. Individual mountains often have unique ecologies and species because they are “islands”. And sometimes the harshest environments are the most biologically pristine because there are not many humans around (farming is probably our most ecologically destructive activity).

I don’t know anything particular about the Himalayas, but I am just asking you take care before jumping to conclusions.

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#37

I used to like reading newspapers from across the spectrum. They had information and facts leavened with reasoned opinions, balanced perspectives. Reading the news media these days is no different than reading some rando on Twitter. Tragic it has come to do this. The NY Times had a truly abominable series of articles on these all focusing on the "negligence" of the current government on building dams. Take this one f…

NYT might be a paragon of journalism for American issues but it is hardly a good source for news about countries like China or India. I have been following their international coverage for some time and what they have mastered is the art of misleading through omission. Whether that is intended or just by virtue of hiring journalists and op-ed writers from the same echo chamber, that I don't know. It is smart in a way…

I broadly agree with what you are saying. Most of the journalists covering India have an left-bias or are from the opposite ideological/religious spectrum. Modi has won the last two general elections with an overwhelming majority and regularly gets approval ratings highest of any world leader but NYT has not done a single positive article on him. Guess 1.3B Indians wrong and NYT right. If that is not blinkered colonialist superiority complex, I don't know what is.

You are getting downvoted by the wide HN audience, I guess the NYT has fans on HN ;)

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYT might be a paragon of journalism for American issues but it is hardly a good source for news about countries like China or India. I have been following their international coverage for some time and what they have mastered is the art of misleading through omission. Whether that is intended or just by virtue of hiring journalists and op-ed writers from the same echo chamber, that I don't know. It is smart in a way…

I broadly agree with what you are saying. Most of the journalists covering India have an left-bias or are from the opposite ideological/religious spectrum. Modi has won the last two general elections with an overwhelming majority and regularly gets approval ratings highest of any world leader but NYT has not done a single positive article on him. Guess 1.3B Indians wrong and NYT right. If that is not blinkered coloni…

I broadly agree with both of you on the nature of coverage in mainstream Western [1] generalist publications about topics on India and China (but also Southeast Asia and Africa, to a point). In my observation, a lot of the coverage on those parts of the world is hollow and lacks sophisticated contextualization along a variety of local and global concerns. If local concerns are noted, it's either an echo of popular Western concern, or some jarring evocation of culture shock and poverty porn.

Notable exceptions include the BBC, who take better care to explain local concerns in greater depth, although they do so in a characteristically terse style that doesn't play well among the New York Times or The Atlantic crowd.

[1] Western here is a byword for US, UK, CA, AU, NZ in the Anglosphere, but also some of the similarly leaning publications in Europe publishing in English.

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#39
post #20

> The disaster draws attention to the controversial hydropower projects Why is this the subheading of the article? All the speculation regarding the actual flood is a glacier breaking away and falling 2km on valley floor triggering landslides and sudden water release. So, why choose to focus on something which many initially incorrectly identified as the reason for destruction. I am not saying we should not focus on…

Big oil has been funding anti - nuclear and anti - hydro efforts for years. The truth is that far more people die from pollution from fossil fuels than have ever died from nuclear or hydro.

> Big oil has been funding anti - nuclear and anti - hydro efforts for years.

You gotta stay updated with the latest current affairs. Big oil is no longer big. They have moved to electric and tourist

Re: Satellites Reveal Cause of Uttarakhand Flood That Devastated Hydroelectric Dams

#40
I live 50km away from this place. And people live near river because it's easier to take water from the river. Rivers are violent during the summer and monsoon season, other times they are furious but not that violent and you can easily throw a bucket and get the water you need.

Slowly borewell came and people started using that while still occasionally going to river when there's too much rush at borewell. Government didn't help to dig multiple ones but these days almost no one goes to river anymore - we get the water from a creek which is supplied to our home using pipelines and now electricity, cable TV, and internet is available even in the remotest village in Himalayas except a few ofc.

Why people are stuck living at such places? Mostly due to sense of community. My own grandparents got rich through trade in commodities which these land produced and were given opportunity to move elsewhere but the reason they didn't move is because they did not want to lose their village community.

These days it also has changed, now people don't really care about each other even in villages and most teenegers leave the village for studies and most of them never come back.

Since e-commerce websites and internet came to these villages, people have become more individualistic. Earlier you could have easily asked for monetary help from any member of village and they'd have given it to you easily but not now it seems everyone the community is lost even tho the standards of living are far better with supplied water, toilets in every home, government offering essentials to poor people in village.

Most people even stopped agriculture in Himalayas because labor is hard to find now. Most labor will go to plains where large continuous tracts of land provide better output and more wages/quality of life and mobility. As a result my grandparents 50 acres of land is now a waste. We grow nothing on them. Given it a few generations and these villages will no longer exist.

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