Typing, RSI, and what I do differently • Hacker News Board

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#31

Post by test1235 » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:07 PM UTC

twobitshifter wrote: post #11

I recently bought a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. It’s a split design but still one piece. It took me about a week to get used to. As a touch typist I had one key that Microsoft stuck on the left, that I type with the right, B, which is dead center on the bottom row on a usual keyboard. I don’t know which hand it canonically belongs to but it didn’t take me long to switch. I purchased this more proactively and it’s p…

supposedly the b key belongs to the left 'cos columnally(?) it's below the g key

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#32

Post by lawn » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

throwaway_moo wrote: post #9

This is not excellent advice regarding the keyboard used. Instead: - learn about the risk factors: https://kinesis-ergo.com/solutions/keyboard-risk-factors/ Keep in mind that there are hundreds of tendons in our hands, so the pattern of inflammation is very personal. Anecdotes are not your friend. - use split keyboards (or any ergo keyboard with enough space between hands) with inclination to limit pronation - use or…

While I agree with your points I'll add that Dvorak is far from the ultimate layout. For instance just try to type 'ls', which as a command-line user you'll do a lot.

People are different and will prefer different layouts. Colemak DH is a very popular and very good one, if you dislike using your pinkies the BEAKL style layouts are very good and if you have a split keyboard you might want E on one of the thumbs so RSTHD might be good. There are many, many more and you can also tweak them or create a completely new one.

Oh I'll add tenting as a good thing explore.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#33

Post by Xevi » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

elanning wrote: post #29

Xevi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes two of us. For the last year I have considered abandoning my job as a developer. 8 hours in front of the computer 5 days a week really wears you down. I do find temporary relief after having exercised. But the pain quickly returns if I start working again, even if I have a standing desk, ergonomic keyboard, touchpad and mouse.

Sorry to hear. I hope you find something that works for you. I wish I could help, but like me, I'm sure you've already researched most solutions.

Yes I spent a considerable amount of money to upgrade my workstation to be more ergonomic. But I still have a lot of things left to try. It kind of hurts to spend $400+ for a single keyboard though, haha.

I have even thought about buying a Mac just to be able to use the built-in Voice Control feature. But they are really expensive, and the new Mac Mini didn't have enough ports for my monitors.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#34

Post by jarnagin » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

AQuantized wrote: post #15

jarnagin wrote: post #10

A lot of people really underestimate the impact that mobility and strengthening can have addressing issues with RSI. If you're struggling with RSI, consider going to physical therapy as your condition may be caused by a wide variety of issues that aren't obvious based on the pain you're having. My own experience was that I dealt with ulnar nerve RSI for about a year. During that time I wore braces at night and tried…

What sort of exercises do you do to help with this? I've been finding it very hard to work on shoulder strength, especially the scapula, without just impinging it more

I actually needed a few weeks of body work and mild exercises to teach me how to correctly engage my scapula before I graduated into more rigorous exercise, and I still require work to keep my infraspinatus from feeling like a steel cable. Things that helped the most:

- Prone T's/I's - Cat Cows with thoracic spine emphasis - Child's pose - Open Books - Supine Chin Tucks - Dead bugs/Bird dogs - Upper trapezius stretch - Levator scapulae stretch - Quadruped open book - Foam rolling back (every few days)

These all caused pain at various points, but as I learned to keep my shoulder rooted in the socket and learned how to correctly engage my scapula (pull down and back rather than up and back) I was able to do them without pain. I also learned to listen to my body and skip things for as long as needed when I wasn't feeling right. Pushing through nerve pain just leads to more pain. Your body will adjust eventually, but it will do it at its own pace.

EDIT:

1. Exercise frequency: daily/as tolerated

2. I also scrape the muscles in my inner forearms with a fascia release tool (butterknife, but you can find real ones online) a few times a week and this helps tremendously.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#35

Post by superjan » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

By far the best ergonomics advice I got was: do what feels natural to you. For me that’s a trackball, and home row typing with my lower arms resting on the table. I have had episodes where I was dangerously close to RSI, but after that last piece of advice those troubles were over. For a while, I stockpiled Trackman marble trackballs, but the MX ergo is finally a good successor. Split keyboards did not make that much difference. And watch out with weak laptop keyboards: if the keys go too easy, you increase muscle tension to avoid typos.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#36

Post by robotmay » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

throwaway_moo wrote: post #28

robotmay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does address both split keyboards and ortho-linear layouts. I disagree with both, personally. Interestingly the Kinesis article you link supports the arguments I make in the article, but their solution is obviously a split keyboard because that's what they sell, rather than offering an alternative typing style. My typing style avoids all the risks they identify.

> My typing style avoids all the risks they identify. From the article: "This is the Way" Also: "The hands should move freely over the keyboard" These are good examples of why we should not listen to advice based on a single example of RSI and contradicts the conclusion "no universal solution for everybody" A lot of people experience contraction and sometimes pains in the shoulders, trapezium, arms due to moving the…

Ah perhaps it’s not clear enough that those 3 items are my own ideals and I wouldn’t claim them to be correct for everybody. The article exists precisely because I was seeing comments arguing entirely to the contrary, such as “movement is bad”, which I know to be wrong for me.

There is a lot of cognitive bias towards the one way of solving RSI (buy an ergonomic keyboard) which then frustrates those for whom it doesn’t work. I’m hoping to offer a different experience which worked for me.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#37

Post by LukeShu » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

shocks wrote: post #5

LukeShu wrote: post #3

Copying an older post that I wrote ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20665338 ) in case it helps anyone (as the OP writes, there's " no universal solution for everybody "): ---- I (25yo), also had pain in my right pinky and wrist, starting about 2 years ago. I spoke with a friend who had surgery for Carpel Tunnel Syndrome, and knew a lot more about this than me. What he told me: * Carpel Tunnel Syndrome affects…

IME wrist braces don’t help, they just lead to muscle atrophy. I picked up rock climbing and my RSI hasn’t come back since.

I suspect that most of the value I got from them was wearing them while sleeping, in that they protect the blood flow to my wrists from being cut off by me lying on my arms.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#38

Post by flarg » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

Fwiw I found dragon dictation software to be a godsend

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#39

Post by eimrine » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

I saw the gif from your website and you are not touchtyping.

Re: Typing, RSI, and what I do differently

#40

Post by EvanAnderson » Fri, Feb 12, 2021, 9:27 PM UTC

esja wrote: post #19

I've been typing for 36 years now (since I was a child), and have never had RSI once, or anything close to it. I think it's because I never learned to touch-type "properly". I use most of my fingers, and I type very fast, but I'm not hitting the "correct" keys with the "correct" fingers - I'm just following whatever comfortable patterns I've burned into muscle memory over all these years. If someone asked me to descr…

I've heard the same story from others, and it's my story too. I type fast enough and accurately enough to get ideas out of my head. I tried to type "correctly" way back in junior high (on a typewriter, no less!) but found that my personal technique (developed since first using Apple II's at 8 y/o) worked better (even on a real typewriter).

Thirty-six years typing this way and never any pain.

I know what you mean re: the muscle memory being burned in. It, no doubt, contributes to my frustration when developers change keyboard shortcuts in systems I've used for years. When Microsoft decided to change "Log off..." to "Sign out" (in Windows 10? 8? I can't recall...) I lost my go-to - - shortcut for logging off. Now I have to look at the screen to make sure my isn't getting "Switch User", "Sign Out", "Sleep" or "Shutdown". (I guess I was the only person in the world who found the keyboard shortcuts for those choices being dis-ambiguous to be valuable...)