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I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

dear.mariechatfield.com

31–40 of 102 posts

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#31

Minority groups are considered as such for a reason (numbers). Fortune 500 companies are not only investing in D&I efforts to bring those candidates in at top dollar. They are also training unskilled minorities into tech trades. How can your small business compete with that?

How do you compete with them on any other talented employee who they pay top dollar for and are willing to train via internships? You provide them with things they cannot get at those companies.

In my experience it's not difficult to find great minority engineers if you build a culture that is actually inclusive. Few companies really do that, large or small, and retention of minority engineers is abysmal at large companies.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#32
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I can share my individual perspective as a tall white guy. Sure, I've been through extraordinary struggles and life difficulties in my early adulthood, yet life is still pretty much easy mode just from the privilege. If you've ever read The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan, the best way I can describe it is it almost feels like being ta'veren. Even if I'm having an off-day, not performing well, doing the wrong thi…

There are millions of 'Tall White Guys' in prison, earning minimum wage, living on the streets. It's really not that much of a privilege.

[deleted]

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#33
The advice about interviewing being exhausting is spot-on. Recruiting, interviewing, and hiring candidates is a very different type of work than most of us engineering types enjoy. Until you’ve developed a thick skin, it can also be emotionally draining to reject candidate after candidate.

The best compromise I’ve found is to have a dedicated person or team perform high-quality first pass filtering of candidates so that the engineers don’t waste their interviewing energy on interviewing any and every candidate. It’s an iterative process that requires constant fine-tuning. It also tends to have a higher false negative rate, so you’ll have to increase the number of candidates entering the funnel.

It’s also important to give interviewers an out to bail early on candidates who are obviously unqualified early in the process. Multi-stage interviews are good here, but you can’t drag the process out for too long. Avoid scheduling more than a 30-60 minute interview before you have a good idea that the candidate is on the right track. Don’t be afraid to politely dismiss a candidate halfway through an interview if they’re obviously not going to work out.

The second topic is more difficult:

> Am I complicit in a racist, sexist system?

If you’re not familiar with all the permutations of this line of thinking, it goes much deeper than you might expect. The pop culture definition of various -ists and -isms varies greatly from person to person. The fear of accidentally crossing into territory that might classify ones self as the “bad” person is a growing fear for people who grew up in the age of Twitter shaming and hyperbolic news stories about evil corporations. The pressure to avoid feeling like one is on the wrong side of history can lead people to make choices in a self-protective fashion rather than doing what’s best for the team or company. I don’t have a great answer to this, but it’s important to keep the dialogues open rather than forcing everyone to determine their own narratives internally. Those unspoken narratives can have an outsized influence on decisions if you don’t get ahead of it as a company.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#34
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is rejecting a candidate soley based on race not racial discrimination? This is illegal where I live; it is probably why companies never give interview feedback to the interviewees because they make these illegal hiring decisions behind the scenes but then say “it wasn’t a good fit”.

Yes, it does technically fit "racial discrimination." However, some people use that simpler term to talk about historic and current power imbalances. In the United States, there were a lot of extra barriers for non-white people. Some still exist, but there's also the self-perpetuating barriers, like how children from poor households are likely to be poor adults. So, if somebody wants to help solve "racial discriminat…

In the United States, there were a lot of extra barriers for non-white people

Join us in Alabama! Here, they put up barriers for everyone that wasn't a large landowner or industrialist. This set back descendants of black slaves, but descendants of white sharecroppers were equally caught up in the net. Arguably, the poor whites were worse off - every black guy realized they were being oppressed, but a good number poor whites had the wool drawn over their eyes.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#35
"Since I started interviewing, we have only hired white or Asian men" -- I actually found this outright racism, it's like saying our NBA roster are still mostly black for the last few decades.

Focus on the merit of them, not the skin color, like Dr.M.L.K said. It's hard to force an Asian to be a NBA player, and it might be difficult to force some black to be a coder, they all have their fields to shine, I pick this just trying to make a point, you pick people by how good they are, not how their skin color looks.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#36
Yawn. Am I the only person who is burnt out on hypocrites lecturing me about race? Where are all the articles talking about how brilliant white and asian kids are being denied opportunities because a school or workplace would rather have a show black kid who never would have been accepted if he were not black. I'm tired of being lectured about equality from people who are trying to get their special privileges while denying people a fair shake. I dont hear black people crying about how there aren't enough asians teaching african American studies. Why do underfunded programs need to spend money marketing themselves only to black people? When is the last time you saw a black face in the media without his race being mentioned? I'm not even white and this BS is nauseating.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#37

I don't know, anecdotally, relationships broke down with me and other stakeholders, and I ended up leaving the company, after I pushed hard for an amazing candidate, the first to ever ace my interviews, whereas said other stakeholders wanted a certain diversity candidate, who while I enjoyed meeting didn't do that well. The funny thing is in SF it's the bro-y white guy CEOs who push the wokeness the hardest. Almost f…

Did you know companies get tax incentives for diversity hiring?

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#38
post #4

I worked at a company where we interviewed frequently in teams of two. The pairs were chosen mostly at random from the large development team, except that at least one would be more experienced with the company, typically. The first team of two would get to know the person. The second team would do a technical interview. If the candidate did well by getting four thumbs-ups, they would often be invited to have lunch w…

I’ve done this as well and agree. It’s also good to have one person taking notes and listening for cues while the other is driving the conversation.

We did encounter one issue though. We had a few engineering team leads involved that happened to be women, and there were a few candidates that basically didn’t acknowledge them and would look at me or other men when answering the technical questions. It was quite unnerving to see it so blatantly.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#39
post #7

Certain demographics are less inclined towards certain jobs. Does anyone seriously think it's a problem that non-white females are represented at less than 0.1% of deep sea welders? Humans are not all equal in proclivities or even innate abilities. The proposed solution by diversity campaigners is usually some form of discrimination, usually against white and Asian people. An Asian male has a much, much higher bar to…

> Certain demographics are less inclined towards certain jobs. This is true, but it isn't inherent to those demographics. I, as a male, was not inclined to ballet dancer as a child. That's not because men aren't good at it, it's because in my culture, male ballet dancers were gay, and in my culture gay was one of the worst things a man could be. So if women are less inclined towards software jobs, is it because all,…

> That's not because men aren't good at it, it's because in my culture, male ballet dancers were gay, and in my culture gay was one of the worst things a man could be. So if women are less inclined towards software jobs, is it because all, or at least most, women don't have what it takes? Or because their culture doesn't encourage girls to study that?

Does that matter, at the company-doing-an-interview stage? Should a ballet troupe lower the bar for men to somehow "make up for" a culture that pushed out men who could have become talented ballerinos in a more just world? IMO that would be a lose-lose approach: bad for audiences, bad for ballerinos.

And what if it's not cultural, but a genuine difference in preference? Aiming to ensure men have an equal opportunity to do ballet is a noble goal. Aiming to ensure an equal number of men do ballet, whether they want to or not, sounds like a totalitarian dystopia.

> But just in case you or someone else takes this to mean we should give up on diversity initiatives, we shouldn't. Failure doesn't mean give up, it means iterate.

How much harm would these initiatives have to do before you'd say we should step back? When it's clear that some people are not getting a fair chance, of course we should step in. But this space is badly in need of something akin to the Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm.

Re: I'm an interviewer at my company and burnt out

#40

Minority groups are considered as such for a reason (numbers). Fortune 500 companies are not only investing in D&I efforts to bring those candidates in at top dollar. They are also training unskilled minorities into tech trades. How can your small business compete with that?

How do you compete with them on any other talented employee who they pay top dollar for and are willing to train via internships? You provide them with things they cannot get at those companies. In my experience it's not difficult to find great minority engineers if you build a culture that is actually inclusive. Few companies really do that, large or small, and retention of minority engineers is abysmal at large com…

That's a fair point and I agree with you, but there's a bit of a chicken and egg problem to create that inclusive environment. What other things would attract talent over Fortune 500 companies? I ask because it's really tough for SMBs to develop hiring programs without the margins the big companies have.
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