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An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

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Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#31

Post by aerosmile »

cheschire wrote: post #25
aerosmile wrote: post #17

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to…

I don’t believe war requires hatred, no more than sport. Some people wind up in war through machinations that have nothing to do with even the acknowledgment of the enemy’s existence. Go here, wait there, if your life is in danger, return the danger back at them.

As someone who witnessed war preparations in two very different countries and with more than a decade in between, I can tell you what they had in common: people at the top had to convince the majority of the population that the war was necessary. In each case, the arguments were sloppy and could have been pushed back on. I would argue that giving people more data points would increase the decisioning threshold for such actions.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#32

Post by shoo »

Interesting to rewind to before the engagement & think about the odds of them both ending up alive years later: there was a chance that Zoltan would be killed by taking a risky third look with the radar from a fixed position. There was a fair chance that both missiles hit Zelko's plane, a chance that any single missile hit would be enough to kill him or render him unable to eject, and a fair chance of him dying anyway even if he did manage to eject. Also a chance that both missiles missed and there would be nothing to write about.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#34

Post by effie »

cassepipe wrote: post #29
effie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I get that point of view, "I'm here just following orders, no hard feelings". And that is part of what is weird to me in these stories from wars, that people are so malleable and empty and later talk big about respecting the other side. Well respect them and don't bomb/shoot missiles at them then. Also, the article sounds very artistic and fake, I'm not totally buying it.

Can't agree more. "Just doing my job" is a pretty shallow justification for killing another person on vague grounds of "defend my country". Even more so when flying an airplane and just dropping bombs all over the fucking place.

Glad I'm not alone here. I can respect people in 2nd WW thinking "I believe they are evil and must be stopped and I will do anything to help that goal". I can't respect "I'm just working here".

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#35

Post by girvo »

codeproject wrote: post #8

A wonderful story indeed, heart warming with a sense of humor. War is really stupid. But there is still an unsolved mystery here, How did the radar pick up the signals? Didn't the pilot turn off all the radios?

I believe the bomb door gave him away

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/an-in-depth-analysis-of-how-...

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#36

Post by x32n23nr »

Another famous example of how in the darkest hours there's longing for peace and friendship is the Christmas Truce during the first world war [1].

British soldiers heard German troops in the trenches singing carols and patriotic songs. They started shouting messages to each other. The next day, soldiers from both sides met, exchanged gifts, took photographs and played football.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#37

Post by welder »

> one woman said to me, “When you were shot down, I celebrated. I cheered with my friends. But we were upset that you were not killed. We thought you deserved to die.” You can imagine the hush in the audience. And then she said, “But now that we have gotten to know you, I’m so glad that you are here.” I was weeping.

> There’s so much misunderstanding in the world resulting in unnecessary sorrow. Having the Danis—a positive, joyful family—in my life has altered my perspective. It may sound trite, but if only there were a way for all the religious, cultural, and ethnic groups of the world to meet and get to know one another in a meaningful way—the way Zoltan and I have—how could we ever go to war again?

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#38

Post by lostlogin »

aerosmile wrote: post #31
cheschire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe war requires hatred, no more than sport. Some people wind up in war through machinations that have nothing to do with even the acknowledgment of the enemy’s existence. Go here, wait there, if your life is in danger, return the danger back at them.

As someone who witnessed war preparations in two very different countries and with more than a decade in between, I can tell you what they had in common: people at the top had to convince the majority of the population that the war was necessary. In each case, the arguments were sloppy and could have been pushed back on. I would argue that giving people more data points would increase the decisioning threshold for su…

Having ones fighting forces being primarily composed of young people is helpful in this regard. Not only are they usually physically fit, they haven’t had a ton of life experience and are more likely to do what they are told without question. The point isn’t for them to think, they don’t need more data, they need to do what they are told.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#39

Post by frereubu »

aerosmile wrote: post #31
cheschire wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe war requires hatred, no more than sport. Some people wind up in war through machinations that have nothing to do with even the acknowledgment of the enemy’s existence. Go here, wait there, if your life is in danger, return the danger back at them.

As someone who witnessed war preparations in two very different countries and with more than a decade in between, I can tell you what they had in common: people at the top had to convince the majority of the population that the war was necessary. In each case, the arguments were sloppy and could have been pushed back on. I would argue that giving people more data points would increase the decisioning threshold for su…

Stefan Zweig's book The World of Yesterday is very good on this as regards WWI from the point of view of Austria-Hungary.

Your comment also reminds me of a phrase from one of the last surviving British soliders from WWI, Harry Patch: "If two Governments can't agree give them a rifle each and let them fight it out. Don't lose 20,000 men. It isn't worth it."

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#40

Post by lb1lf »

hollerith wrote: post #12
iaw wrote: post #3

This reminds me of the Soviet blockade of West Berlin. Virtually overnight two sides that had been trying to kill each other were working hand in hand to save the Germans living in Berlin.

>Virtually overnight Except that the blockade began 3 years after hostilities between the US and Germany ended.

-Considering the scale of the hostilities, I don't think it is much hyperbole to suggest the turn in attitude happened virtually overnight.

I do seem to recall that the Berlin airlift more than any other event was what turned the inhabitants of the western zones around from seeing the Allies as occupants to, well, allies.

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