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Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

theatlantic.com

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Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#31

Post by loriverkutya »

ahelwer wrote: post #16
est31 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First the communist countries deployed extremely autocratic measures that wouldn't befit free societies. Second, their numbers are far more likely lies than the US ones. These countries are extremely adamant about their public image. That's why they sent police to a doctor's home in Wuhan instead of taking the problem seriously and maybe, you know, stopping international movement to that city.

This zombie they're lying about their numbers! cope needs to die. Look at Taiwan. Look at Korea. Both of them handled the virus fairly well, with much less extreme measures, and have good relations with the US so you have no reason to doubt their numbers.

Why should this they're lying about their numbers cope should die? They are lying about their numbers so you don't have solid data to argue with.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#32

Post by ahelwer »

est31 wrote: post #30
ahelwer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This zombie they're lying about their numbers! cope needs to die. Look at Taiwan. Look at Korea. Both of them handled the virus fairly well, with much less extreme measures, and have good relations with the US so you have no reason to doubt their numbers.

Those countries aren't communist though. If something needs to die it's communism.

Yes, that's the point. You won't believe numbers from any communist country. So I provided nearby non-communist countries who have significant overlap in strategy, with good success, whose numbers you will believe. We can infer that even more stringent measures would have resulted in even better outcomes. Thus the communist countries are likely not lying about their numbers.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#33

Post by armada651 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #24
mchusma wrote: post #5

First Dose First and approving more vaccines are the easiest answer to this question. The prioritization is not working well, for the reasons outlined in this article. However, we can give approximately 4x the rate of people getting 100% protection from ICU/death. First dose first gives you approximately 2x the throughput (all first doses from all vaccine candidates thus far are fully protective from death). Approvin…

The FDA's continual foot dragging on approving AstraZeneca is criminal. The UK has already thoroughly reviewed it and decided it was safe for approval. Is there any reason to believe that British scientists are any less competent than their American counterparts? If the trials were successful in the UK, it's a complete waste of time to insist that they be duplicated in the US. Especially when thousands die every day.…

The FDA's continual foot dragging on approving Thalidomide is criminal. West Germany has already thoroughly reviewed it and decided it was safe for approval. Is there any reason to believe that German scientists are any less competent than their American counterparts?

Frances Kelsey is just another example of bureaucrats flexing their power to aggrandize their own importance.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#34

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

SllX wrote: post #11
dehrmann wrote: post #3

I get it, but you've made it 11 months already, case counts are falling rapidly, spring is coming, and people getting vaccinated will drive down new cases even more. Calm down and wait another month or two.

What’s to remain calm about with a State government too busy trying to figure out who it is most fair to inject shots into arms, losing doses in the time it takes to figure it out, rather than getting shots into arms? Start delivering on demand and the manufacturing supply will take care of itself.

You're kinda proving the point here. The source article is about exactly the opposite problem: Maryland is widely distributing vaccines rather than micromanaging fairness, so there are a lot of random tricks available for people to get vaccines faster, and the author is frustrated about that. When there's no perfect strategy available, we can and should push for continual improvement, but there's a point where we have to accept people are doing their best instead of getting mad about it.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#35

Post by skadamou »

dcolkitt wrote: post #24
mchusma wrote: post #5

First Dose First and approving more vaccines are the easiest answer to this question. The prioritization is not working well, for the reasons outlined in this article. However, we can give approximately 4x the rate of people getting 100% protection from ICU/death. First dose first gives you approximately 2x the throughput (all first doses from all vaccine candidates thus far are fully protective from death). Approvin…

The FDA's continual foot dragging on approving AstraZeneca is criminal. The UK has already thoroughly reviewed it and decided it was safe for approval. Is there any reason to believe that British scientists are any less competent than their American counterparts? If the trials were successful in the UK, it's a complete waste of time to insist that they be duplicated in the US. Especially when thousands die every day.…

Here is a good article that explains how drug approval is different in the US from Europe/UK [1]. Basically, the FDA has a reputation for being more thorough and for not taking the drug companies at their word and instead looking at the raw data from their trials. IDK if that is the best approach for approving the AstraZeneca vaccine but as this article explains, the FDAs approach did prevent thalidomide from being used in the US which was later found to cause birth defects in Europe and Canada.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/04/how-vaccine-ap...

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#36

Post by andrei_says_ »

armada651 wrote: post #33
dcolkitt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA's continual foot dragging on approving AstraZeneca is criminal. The UK has already thoroughly reviewed it and decided it was safe for approval. Is there any reason to believe that British scientists are any less competent than their American counterparts? If the trials were successful in the UK, it's a complete waste of time to insist that they be duplicated in the US. Especially when thousands die every day.…

The FDA's continual foot dragging on approving Thalidomide is criminal. West Germany has already thoroughly reviewed it and decided it was safe for approval. Is there any reason to believe that German scientists are any less competent than their American counterparts? Frances Kelsey is just another example of bureaucrats flexing their power to aggrandize their own importance.

You forgot the /s and that may be confusing to many.

Frances Kelsey refused to approve the drug despite immense pressure to do so, and thus prevented releasing a drug causing birth defects.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#37

Post by andrei_says_ »

SllX wrote: post #28
SteveNuts wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can technology help with this? What percentage of manufactured doses per week are being administered?

They already built a system in Washington to keep track of where every single dose anywhere in the country is and redistribute it as necessary. I take the existence of this system at-all to be emblematic of the general failure of government vaccine distribution. I’ll offer up my reasoning if asked, but I would like you to think about why I say this and what type of accounting we should actually be practicing.

I’d love to hear your reasoning and alternatives.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#38

Post by zionic »

legulere wrote: post #23

> America’s distribution plan is no more fair or logical than a Soviet-style queue for cabbage. I don't see how a capitalist distribution system (if you have money you get it earlier) is in any way more fair than a system which is based on need. Capitalism's strength is in extracting resources and increasing production and efficiency in things there is a good market for. But it's not good at all in distributing thing…

>But it's not good at all in distributing things.

Maybe if you micro-benchmark it, but capitalism tends to have the food to distribute in the first place.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#39

Post by neuronic »

legulere wrote: post #23

> America’s distribution plan is no more fair or logical than a Soviet-style queue for cabbage. I don't see how a capitalist distribution system (if you have money you get it earlier) is in any way more fair than a system which is based on need. Capitalism's strength is in extracting resources and increasing production and efficiency in things there is a good market for. But it's not good at all in distributing thing…

When it comes to serious diseases I don't think we are ever in the 'realm of fairness'.

In an ideal world, we would vaccinate every single person at the same time. But we can't do that so we have to prioritize based on varying strategies.

The EU and the US have both been entirely inept when dealing with SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. The rollout has to happen FAST on a planetary scale. Mutations happen as we speak and if we are in bad luck, one of those will knock-out the vaccines and get us back to square one.

We need to vaccinate countries that we usually just don't give a shit about because they may be a mutation source in the future.

Re: Frustration Is Spreading Faster Than the Vaccine Is

#40

Post by lastofthemojito »

Central Maryland resident here (same general area as the article's author is talking about). The situation is insane. My elderly parents are in Group 1A and are still waiting on their turn. But Group 1B got opened up, so teachers and others could get vaccines. Oh, and Group 1C also opened up, including other essential workers. At this point I think half of the adults I know are eligible to receive the vaccine for one reason or another.

Three people I know (1 in her 20s, 2 in their 30s) fit the description of hospital staff who got vaccinated despite doing non-patient facing work, entirely or mostly from home.

Schools are being pushed to open back up, and why shouldn't they, right? Teachers have been eligible to be vaccinated for a while now! But I know of plenty of teachers who still haven't been able to get an appointment.

I've been playing the "refresh 7 different websites" game to find appointments for my family and I finally managed to snag ONE yesterday! Except it's in Cumberland, which is technically Maryland but might as well be West Virginia. So now I have to decide whether it's worth spending 4 hours in a car on Monday to get one of us a shot. And presumably do that again in a few weeks for the second dose.

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