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Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

knightcolumbia.org

31–40 of 285 posts

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#31
post #3

>a workable plan that enables more free speech, [...] That approach: build protocols, not platforms. To be clear, this is an approach that would bring us back to the way the internet used to be. The early internet involved many different protocols—instructions and standards that anyone could then use to build a compatible interface. As I've commented before[1][2], discussing protocols and advocating for them is a pop…

Yeah. Recommendation systems, like HN, are attractive to people and difficult to replace with open protocols.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#32
I am getting really sick of these articles.

NO: building protocols or decentralized networks, or anything really isn't going to solve the hate-speech/censorship problem.

This. Is. A. Culture. Problem.

The hate-speech/censorship problem exists everywhere. If you can publish somewhere, you can publish hate/spam. And if there is hate and/or spam, you need to censor. That's it. The very fact of publishing is the problem. In fact the only true way of solving the problem is to prevent people from publishing stuff.

The internet from the 90s didn't solve that problem. It just wasn't a problem so much at the time. Mastodon is certainly not solving that problem. Email, IRC, Usenet, BBses, etc. don't even address the problem...

Now, the real question is why do people get so worked up? And how can we shift the culture away from this partisan shithole we're in now?

Certainly not for me to answer that question. It maybe because people are poor, it may be because people lack some sense of purpose, it may be because of opioids, or video games, or because of vaccines and Gwyneth Paltrow. I honestly don't have a clue.

But stop making it about platforms vs decentralized crap.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#33
This take is inaccurate and a myopic understanding of free speech.

Moderating social media, and the internet is in fact, doable, and absolutely necessary. This has nothing to do with "censorship".

The debate is actually easily settled if you understand what is happening with free speech online.

What typically happens in conspiracy-circles, is that people are radicalized because the disinformation is simply not challenged. It may be that a few users will dispute various claims, but their valuable, fact-based input, is typically drowned in a flood of spam, personal attacks, and claims unrelated to the claims that are being discussed in a given forum- or comment thread.

The problem with "unmoderated free speech" is that informationterrorists can abuse "free speech" to repeat the same disputed claims over and over, without ever addressing the fact that their claims have been disproven. This is also what I would label as "flooding the discussion" or "drowning the facts"; it is so effective that everyone who conducts themselves properly and respectfully are drowned in this flood of disinformation; this actually results in a "suppression" of free speech. When only one side is really heard, then we effectively do not have free speech.

Instead, what we have is a conversation that is dominated and suppressed by a few bullies that are shouting the loudest.

In addition, you would really hate to have governments influence the fact-checking processes on social media platforms, since governments have ultimate power, they are also the largest threat to free speech. Ideally fact-checking should be done 100% transparently by independent fact-checkers, and the facts that lead to a conclusion has to be tediously and transparently documented so that everyone can trust the processes. People who think the conclusion of a fact-check is inaccurate should take it up with the relevant fact-checkers, or possibly take it through the courts.

This "ideal" of "unmoderated free speech" has never really worked. It did not work in the real world, and surely will not work on the internet. The problem with this idea is that anti-social individuals will just try to control the narrative by spamming or repeating disproven claims (shouting), making new false claims, pushing disproven conspiracy theories. Etc.

A common technique I see used by malicious sources, is to release one claim, have people debate- and disprove it, only to release another, unrelated, claim without ever acknowledging the fact that their first claim was false. The result is that even old and disproven claims are circulating in an endless loop. They use this technique continuously with countless of subjects, both old and new — you would think that people will eventually reject claims made by known informationterrorists, due to their lack of credibility and history of publishing falsehoods, but that does not seem to be the case.

I am not a fan of banning people permanently from social media, as it just seems too merciless — there has to be ways to get un-banned — but, as a minimum, we should have fact-checking on profiles with large followings; and of course, groups and profiles used primarily to spread disinformation should be deleted.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#34
post #22

"After a decade or so of the general sentiment being in favor of the internet and social media as a way to enable more speech and improve the marketplace of ideas, in the last few years the view has shifted dramatically—now it seems that almost no one is happy." 10 or 15 years ago people looked at web 1.0, saw many good communities and valuable conversations and said "we need to protect free speech". Today people loo…

I look at it this way: 10-15 years ago many of us were complaining the web was being turned into TV. I think that was basically right, and now social media is rediscovering the other things that made TV work, which is that you can't just continually show the most upsetting/titillating media 24/7. And with the benefit of hindsight, I don't believe Twitter/Facebook have the obligation to be the venue where we exercise…

> It's time to move on and use those services for keeping in touch with old classmates or whatever they are good at and develop platforms that are good for holding serious conversations.

The challenge is, there's no money in that. The money is in serving ads, which depends on serving up upsetting/titillating media 24/7.

Paywalls can't work because the barrier to entry keeps you from getting a sufficient network effect. You can have a small community that way, but you can't do a global "connecting everyone" thing. Such services will simply be outcompeted by the Facebook model.

I think the headlining article's point on open protocols might be the only way to square that circle and I'm not even very optimistic about that working. I think the real disjunction happens when we merge news with a general social feed of every random person's opinion. If you stream your facts and porthole into the broader world through the same framework that you stream advertizing and deranged soapbox rants, then you're conceptually putting all those things in the same box and blurring the lines between them. News articles present themselves more like ads (e.g.". . .and you won't believe what happens next"). Conversations start to resemble ads too, with people throwing out provocative statements to get attention and likes instead of engaging in a more genuine/1to1 way.And the ads start to try looking like news or advice from a 'friend' (read: influencer) to slip past your "this is marketing BS" filter.

The context collapse is what's unsustainable. In the olden days, when forums ruled the web, people got links and memes shared in forums, but the people sharing those things were getting them from other forums or they were finding them in blogs or pages via an RSS reader or just a daily roll of bookmarked sites they would go through. This maintained some cognitive difference between when you're seeing a blog written by an irascible and opinionated shock jock versus a piece in The NYTimes. Even if the person sharing had the point of an article go over their heads or ends up 'eating the onion' on something whatever harebrained aspect of it remains sequestered in whatever subforum they're in if it doesn't get fact checked there. The collapse makes the consumer stop being aware of the distinctions, and it cuts off the small-scale testbeds these things have to go through before they go truly viral. It also drives the producers to not care. So now the NYTimes hires irascible shock jocks as editorial columnists too because nothing matters anymore.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#35
post #13

I do some research with some people on a dead simple new low level encoding for new protocols called Tree Notation. It's all public domain. I plug it a lot here when I see something relevant, which this post is (and I've long been a fan of the Knight orgs and supporter of them). Anyway, always happy to chat with people about how this stuff could help a new generation of simple open protocols: Homepage: (needs a refre…

How would you encode a protocol with Tree Notation?

If you specify the fields and hierarchy with Tree Notation or YAML or JSON or EBNF or whatever, that's a starting point which can help with implementation the communication and data storage part. But you still need to write code for each language and each protocol right? Or can we encode the protocol-handling code using Tree Notation also?

I have always felt like web assembly was missing a well-defined system for extending the API and also a strong external module system. Or even if you could not extend the API much, if WASI had UDP, and there was a good WASM module distribution system, that seems like a way that one could distribute protocols.

But also Ethereum 2 seems like a decent way to distribute protocols.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#36
post #5
post #2

Certain events that have taken place over the last few days and weeks will drive decentralization forward like never before.

Let's hope it also works for the platform economy (e.g. UberEats, AppStore, YouTube, ...) Companies should not own or regulate entire markets.

I think fast cryptocurrency transactions is going to help a lot. I am really hopeful about Ethereum 2.0 because I think it has the right technical approach, leadership and will have the momentum to get widely rolled out.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#37

You can tell this article is well over a year old, because it doesn't mention the words Fediverse, ActivityPub, Mastodon (or Quanta.wiki!) It was summer of 2019 when the vast majority of those who are most 'plugged in' realized we're going to need a new censorship-resistant web, after the Vox Adpocolypse and other totalitarian and dictatorial over-reach by BigTech, which has been escalating steadily since then, culmi…

>Point of Fact: 68% of voters had never heard of the Hunter Laptop on election day.

Do you have a source for that? I'm interested to read more about that.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#38
post #32

I am getting really sick of these articles. NO: building protocols or decentralized networks, or anything really isn't going to solve the hate-speech/censorship problem. This. Is. A. Culture. Problem. The hate-speech/censorship problem exists everywhere. If you can publish somewhere, you can publish hate/spam. And if there is hate and/or spam, you need to censor. That's it. The very fact of publishing is the problem.…

https://youtu.be/gjufYwIbITw Johnathan Haidt with Andrew Yang

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#39
post #3

>a workable plan that enables more free speech, [...] That approach: build protocols, not platforms. To be clear, this is an approach that would bring us back to the way the internet used to be. The early internet involved many different protocols—instructions and standards that anyone could then use to build a compatible interface. As I've commented before[1][2], discussing protocols and advocating for them is a pop…

Github is a hosting service built around git. Likewise, gmail is a service built around e-mail protocols. It's fine for services like these to exist because you have a choice of whether you want to use them or not to facilitate the use of the underlying protocol (you are free to set up your own e-mail server if you want, and doing so does not prevent you from communicating with users who choose to use gmail).

I think rather the big issue is, for instance, the use of Facebook Messenger for IM. If everyone I know uses it, I have no choice but to use it too because there is no underlying protocol behind it.

Re: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech (2019)

#40

"After a decade or so of the general sentiment being in favor of the internet and social media as a way to enable more speech and improve the marketplace of ideas, in the last few years the view has shifted dramatically—now it seems that almost no one is happy." 10 or 15 years ago people looked at web 1.0, saw many good communities and valuable conversations and said "we need to protect free speech". Today people loo…

> Advocating for more of it means you're advocating for giving more power to the companies who fucked up the system in the first place.

You mean that in the current framework right? Because in the proposed framework in the article more speech does not lead to more power to the companies.

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