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Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

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Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#31

Post by kangaroozach »

sandworm101 wrote: post #23
KoftaBob wrote: post #20

This brings up a question I still haven't gotten a clear answer to: why isn't Signal peer-to-peer like this? What is it about p2p that made it not doable, rather than Signal's current setup where every message goes through a centralized server before reaching the recipient? Would appreciate any insight.

There are practical problems. Does no internet also mean no network connection? Getting two devices to talk to each other without a network is not straightforward. Bluetooth can do it but has range limitations. Wifi can do it to, but there you have to get into very hardware-specific wizardry to move packets between devices without a network router. The target devices, cellphones, are designed to provide network acces…

Thoughts on GeTenna? What about an open source encrypted protocol that uses an RF device like GoTenna on specific longer range frequencies? Anything like that exist?

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#32

Post by kangaroozach »

robotmay wrote: post #10
lucideer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only p2p messenger I've used that hasn't suffered too badly from "blank canvas" is Manyverse. It's technically not a dedicated messenger (more like a p2p encrypted Facebook equivalent, with a p2p FBMessenger equivalent built-in as a side feature), but that aspect just makes it a lot easier to find people to chat with. It's unfortunately not quite as stable/performant as Briar though (yet).

I did have a bit of a play with Manyverse (and with SSB itself in the past) and it looks interesting. The lack of syncing between desktop and mobile SSB accounts is a bit of a pain which I think will hinder adoption until they come up with a solution to that. I do worry that a lot of these newer messengers and networks are operating on a memory of what social networking was like in 2010. Quite a few at least handle p…

What if they use IPFS for encrypted larger file size messages and treat the main message as they would an on-chain message that references the ipfs CID?

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#33

Post by kangaroozach »

cuu508 wrote: post #28
Jorropo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Bluetooth.

What happens when Alice wants to send a message to Bob, but they are not in Bluetooth range of each other? Can a Birdy client with internet access serve as a gateway to other Birdy clients without internet access?

Like GoTenna Mesh?

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#35

Post by exabrial »

avianlyric wrote: post #24
exabrial wrote: post #22

It would be cool if there was a BLE -> inter webs gateway that could be ran on something like a rpi or other very low cost common hardware. LOVE the concept of this project though. Starred and keeping an eye on it!

Isn’t that just WiFi with extra steps? BLE gets most of its energy efficiency from aggressively turning the radios off when they’re not in use. Wifi can do the same thing, and protocols like Thread are pushing in that direction. The big issue with a BLE to interwebs gateway is that you means you need to handle routing etc. Which starts to erode the benefits of using BLE in the first place.

I'm more talking about being able to exchange messages across continents without offering somebody full TCP/IP access to your network. Your point is valid though

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#36

Post by ajconway »

KoftaBob wrote: post #20

This brings up a question I still haven't gotten a clear answer to: why isn't Signal peer-to-peer like this? What is it about p2p that made it not doable, rather than Signal's current setup where every message goes through a centralized server before reaching the recipient? Would appreciate any insight.

The issue with pure p2p is that devices are not always online. Mobile devices usually forbid (or at least highly discourage) executing code in background which doesn’t help either.

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#38

Post by 3np »

georgyo wrote: post #27

The poster of this "Show HN" seems to have zero involvement with the development of berty. I've been eagerly awaiting the release of berty for a few months now, but they have not made public the app yet. They have a closed beta, for a few months. And their build process for the android app is complex. While berty is extremely interesting tech, I don't think it's quite ready to be on Hacker News yet.

Early-stage prototypes and weekend hacks show up from time to time - it shouldn't be expected that "Show HN"s are production-ready.

Who knows, someone might just jump in and contribute.

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#39

Post by 3np »

robert_foss wrote: post #37
akavel wrote: post #25

How does that compare to Secure Scuttlebutt?

SSB doesn't do encryption. Yes, you read that right. Messages are only signed.

That's not true.

https://scuttlebot.io/apis/scuttlebot/private.html

If you're strictly talking about the core protocol, yes, applications and protocols with other encryption mechanisms can be used instead.

Re: Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

#40

Post by freeCandy »

cuu508 wrote: post #28
Jorropo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are using Bluetooth.

What happens when Alice wants to send a message to Bob, but they are not in Bluetooth range of each other? Can a Birdy client with internet access serve as a gateway to other Birdy clients without internet access?

It doesn't seem to be fully reliant on BLE.

From the docs [1]:

> It is possible to fully use the Berty Protocol without ever accessing the Internet: create an account, add contacts to it, join conversations and send messages as long as there are Berty users within a Bluetooth range.

[1] https://berty.tech/docs/protocol/#direct-transport

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