Differences between German and British manners • Hacker News Board

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#31

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:12 PM UTC

I used to think smalltalk was annoying and useless. I was most of the way out of that attitude by the time I lived in Germany, and was thoroughly rid of it by the time I left.

Growing a new social circle in Germany is a complete bitch in large part because people really are less superficial and more direct. The "etiquette of simulation" makes everything so much easier. I'm not saying it's all that easy to get to know people in my home country, Ireland, but there is at least a place where talking to total strangers will not get you funny looks, the pub.

And dating, oh god, dating.

I miss Germany.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#32

Post by pagekalisedown » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:14 PM UTC

Typhon wrote: post #14

« The German language doesn't even have an expression for "small talk", she says. » When will this idea that because Language X doesn't have Y, the idea Y represents is alien to X speakers finally disappear ? Although language does have an influence on one's thinking habit, this idea is a gross misrepresentation of very complex phenomena. There's no word in French for the verb "to need". There's no future tense in Fi…

"to need" -> "avoir besoin" (to have a need)

Verbs are a lot more complex in French than in English, so I'm glad they went that way. Seems a lot simpler than adding a whole new verb.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#33

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:15 PM UTC

blumentopf wrote: post #15

wybo wrote: post #13

Am a Dutch student currently studying in the UK, and many of these differences are true indeed, and possibly even larger between Dutch and English people than between Germans and the English. 'Thanks', and 'please', are used in Dutch only when there is much to thank for (saving someones life, or at least possessions or the like). While in English they are part of almost any question or exchange, no matter how trivial…

I think the Germanic approach is particularly helpful for Asperger people, which are obviously prevalent in the IT industry. The social protocol is easier to parse. Interestingly, attitudes differ even among German-speaking countries: Austrians often criticize the German "yes means yes, no means no" attitude. I've read an article which attributed this to Austrians' centuries of experience with their Balkan neighbours…

I was shocked to find out the Schwyer were even more um, polite, than the Germans. Hallo is an implied "du", as was tschüss so unless you want to piss everybody off, it was either Guten Tag or Grüssi and Aufwiedersehen.

Very formal people the German speaking Swiss.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#34

Post by Typhon » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

pagekalisedown wrote: post #32

Typhon wrote: post #14

« The German language doesn't even have an expression for "small talk", she says. » When will this idea that because Language X doesn't have Y, the idea Y represents is alien to X speakers finally disappear ? Although language does have an influence on one's thinking habit, this idea is a gross misrepresentation of very complex phenomena. There's no word in French for the verb "to need". There's no future tense in Fi…

"to need" -> "avoir besoin" (to have a need) Verbs are a lot more complex in French than in English, so I'm glad they went that way. Seems a lot simpler than adding a whole new verb.

I know that, and that's beside my point.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#35

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:18 PM UTC

lispm wrote: post #29

nhaehnle wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Native speaker of German here. "Klatsch" is not "small talk", it's "gossip". "Gerede" is a word that I've only heard in debates to suggest that something is not to be taken seriously, i.e. it has serious negative connotations. Perhaps it used to mean "small talk" in the past when Germans did such things, and then changed to have the negative meaning when small talk fell out of favour? Of course, the German word "Smal…

Unterhaltung Konversation

Both of those could be applied to any conversational exchange, whether information was really being exchanged or not, and smalltalk is heavily weighted towards the "not".

It's not what you say, but how you say it. /exaggeration

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#36

Post by mhd » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:23 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #19

gloob wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much the same thing that it says about English-speakers when they have to borrow the word "entrepreneur".

There is a slight difference, though, in that the English speaking world has taken a huge amount of its vocabulary from French. It may be less remarkable when Americans borrow a word then when Germans do this. That said, "Entrepreneur", from what I read on wikipedia, was a 19th century import, not a William the Conquerer import, so you do make a pretty good point - it does seem more of a "borrowed word" than a core p…

Considering that we're neighbors (and, well, wars), it's not surprising that Germany has quite a few words borrowed from French, too. Actually, some words that are considered very normal by Germans were inventions by a few linguists to counter that (and Latin). And not even for nationalistic reasons, just to make it easier for the common man... Especially considering the Latin roots and constant cross-pollination, European languages can't be considered very isolated from each other.

Never mind that there are quite a few words for small talk, too. As if that's the only word in English for it... It's just that it got quite popular due to its poignancy. Just like "Zeitgeist" the other way 'round.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#37

Post by mhd » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #35

lispm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unterhaltung Konversation

Both of those could be applied to any conversational exchange, whether information was really being exchanged or not, and smalltalk is heavily weighted towards the "not". It's not what you say, but how you say it. /exaggeration

Schwatz, Plausch, Plauderei, Tratsch? And as we're getting very informal here, local dialects take over. Which is one of the reason why "small talk", sounding a bit more high-brow, was so easily adopted.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#38

Post by JCB_K » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:29 PM UTC

wybo wrote: post #13

Am a Dutch student currently studying in the UK, and many of these differences are true indeed, and possibly even larger between Dutch and English people than between Germans and the English. 'Thanks', and 'please', are used in Dutch only when there is much to thank for (saving someones life, or at least possessions or the like). While in English they are part of almost any question or exchange, no matter how trivial…

Another Dutchie in the UK here. Your experiences sound very familiar. People passing me in my office would mumble a quick "heyyoualrighthowyoudoing", and I would stand still and say something like "yeah I'm good! How are you doing today?" They'd be terrified.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#39

Post by detst » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:30 PM UTC

wybo wrote: post #13

Am a Dutch student currently studying in the UK, and many of these differences are true indeed, and possibly even larger between Dutch and English people than between Germans and the English. 'Thanks', and 'please', are used in Dutch only when there is much to thank for (saving someones life, or at least possessions or the like). While in English they are part of almost any question or exchange, no matter how trivial…

Most Dutch people I've met in the US seemed rather cynical. They were all quite likable and I enjoyed spending time with them but the way you interpret "how are you doing" makes me wonder if I was just wrongly interpreting them. It always made me wonder if they were unhappy people.

Re: Differences between German and British manners

#40

Post by barry-cotter » Fri, May 27, 2011, 5:37 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #37

barry-cotter wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those could be applied to any conversational exchange, whether information was really being exchanged or not, and smalltalk is heavily weighted towards the "not". It's not what you say, but how you say it. /exaggeration

Schwatz, Plausch, Plauderei, Tratsch? And as we're getting very informal here, local dialects take over. Which is one of the reason why "small talk", sounding a bit more high-brow, was so easily adopted.

Dear God, I don't recognise a single one of those. But what about people from areas that might have local slang but don't have a dialect, like Niedersachsen or (bits of) the Rhineland? And what about the university attending classes, who are much more likely to become free-floating German instead of being rooted to anyplace particular?