Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology • Hacker News Board

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#31

Post by tartoran » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

> the experiences that you will have are things that you will be created and edited for you [..] > sleep will now become an app that you will run where you say I need this much sleep, I need this much REM

I find this to go in a bizarre awkward direction. We as humans have self regulating capabilities that are to be tapped with some "self work". Is that a bad thing? Why are we trying to change that and create an app to control bodily functions? Our brain is perfectly capable of handling that and has been for millions of years in our ancestors

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#32

Post by Rastonbury » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #21

offtop5 wrote: post #9

This scares me a bit. Let's say you have certain nero indicators which indicate person X may do Y . Do you we then minority report lock up people. At the same time , it's going to be amazing for people in a coma or unable to communicate. We could have a fantastic amazing world, where we effectively live forever via some type of matrix like interface.

Worse yet, while the government may be banned from looking at this data intrusively. We're likely to freely give it away to a few large tech companies. Without limits on their use, their power will only continue to grow. To me the primary issue of our day at this moment, is we have no users bill of rights. We are forced to use the services of large tech companies to participate in modern life yet there are few restri…

Imagine targeting advertising based on a certain state of mind yikes

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#33

Post by mentos » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

johnnybaptist wrote: post #16

I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :) Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

I often wonder about the parallels between reverse engineering games using memory inspection software like 'cheat engine' to trying to reverse engineer the brain using a BCI.

For example if you want to find the memory address for your guns ammo you search for a start value in memory say '30', get all addresses that match that value, fire the gun and then find which of those addresses now have the value 29. Continue the search until you narrow down the memory address to just one. Then you can use that address to query the ammo for a 3rd party program that alerts you that you're low on ammo or even write to the memory address to give yourself more ammo..

Obviously the brain isn't as discrete but I feel like if I could play around with a BCI I could find fun signals for when I'm thinking about 'apples' vs 'oranges' and slowly build up an interface.

Have you been able to use a BCI to detect when you're thinking about something specific?

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#34

Post by redwall_hp » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #6

It will be horrible when you suddenly can't afford to subscribe your brain extensions. It will be like severe brain damage. Imagine living only half-life.

That's a recurring thing in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Outside of the protagonist, most people need a costly antirejection drug for the augmentations that they're societally pressured to have. Because they're otherwise uncompetitive in their work.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#35

Post by throwaway3699 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

mentos wrote: post #33

johnnybaptist wrote: post #16

I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :) Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

I often wonder about the parallels between reverse engineering games using memory inspection software like 'cheat engine' to trying to reverse engineer the brain using a BCI. For example if you want to find the memory address for your guns ammo you search for a start value in memory say '30', get all addresses that match that value, fire the gun and then find which of those addresses now have the value 29. Continue t…

I thought about buying an OpenBCI kit to try something like this, but I think there's just not enough sensor resolution to get anything meaningful in the way you're suggesting. The strongest signals by far come from muscle movement, too, so that tends to be the basis of interfaces.

(FWIW: absolutely not an expert)

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#36

Post by farias0 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

johnnybaptist wrote: post #16

I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :) Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

What is the timeframe you imagine for us to see the first consumer BCI-based products?

Gabe seems to talk a lot about "inserting" data (like feelings) into the brain, instead of reading it. Is the technology really there already? Can we reliably read data from the brain (i.e. using it as input for a digital system)? And regarding inserting, what is the coolest thing you've done that you can share with us?

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#37

Post by bullen » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

I think VR could use non-fresnel lenses and better ways to adapt your vision in the headset, ironically the DK1&2 had lenscups which now are found in zero headsets.

I keep my old glasses that are smaller to be able to fit them in my vive, but that makes development inconcievable: Remove terminal/monitor glasses and put on old glasses and then the headset every time I need to test something in VR. Nope I'm not doing that.

Also why are the media business still adding fake laughter and annoying background music to everything they touch?

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#38

Post by mattkrause » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

mentos wrote: post #33

johnnybaptist wrote: post #16

I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :) Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

I often wonder about the parallels between reverse engineering games using memory inspection software like 'cheat engine' to trying to reverse engineer the brain using a BCI. For example if you want to find the memory address for your guns ammo you search for a start value in memory say '30', get all addresses that match that value, fire the gun and then find which of those addresses now have the value 29. Continue t…

There's a huge chunk of neuroscience devoted to questions like this.

Several groups have shown that they can "decode" a remembered image from brain activity. This is comparatively easy when the images are simple and there are only a few possibilities, but can generalize to larger sets of images and even (sort of) never-before-seen ones. Sensory and motor information is relatively accessible; I don't know that anyone's making great progress decoding thoughts like "I should be home by 8pm".

If this is up your alley, you may want to check out work done by Frank Tong's lab at Princeton (e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808230/) or Jack Gallant's group at UC Berkley (e.g, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105381191...), among others.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#39

Post by criddell » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #14

Heh. Remember back in the day when pacemakers were being hacked remotely because admin passwords weren't even changed from the default, on top of outdated wireless protocols? Oh right that's today! Hardware makers often aren't good at software, not to mention software updates. And even that gets wonky, like when Microsoft update got hijacked. Point is, if we can't get IoT 100% right, or even 90% right, how can we tru…

I don't recall where I first heard this, but I think it's true:

The theme of CES for the past decade has been making products worse through software.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#40

Post by 5440 » Mon, Jan 25, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

I do a significant amount of breakthrough device fda/eu regulatory work in the BCI area. For those interested, its worth reading the FDA guidance: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidan....