Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students • Hacker News Board

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#31

Post by michaeldhopkins » Wed, May 25, 2011, 11:36 AM UTC

Egregore wrote: post #29

benwerd wrote: post #23

This could be awesome. I'm not sure I like the idea of lessons being electronic in a systemic way. (When I worked on Elgg, originally an elearning app, I declared that I'd stop immediately if I thought people would use it to replace face-to-face lessons.) Nonetheless, this is going to have a lot of very positive real-world applications. Kudos also for a very simple, friendly design. Here's what I don't like: the use…

Can you please explain, why do you think that replacing face-to-face lessons is bad?

If the lessons replaced are nothing but teacher-to-student lecturing then little is lost. However, all my best teachers employed more of a Socratic method. That method cannot be substituted with a recording. This program could work well with the Socratic method if students come to class to debate and present the material they studied at home.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#32

Post by dhimes » Wed, May 25, 2011, 12:26 PM UTC

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #31

Egregore wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain, why do you think that replacing face-to-face lessons is bad?

If the lessons replaced are nothing but teacher-to-student lecturing then little is lost. However, all my best teachers employed more of a Socratic method. That method cannot be substituted with a recording. This program could work well with the Socratic method if students come to class to debate and present the material they studied at home.

You mean, if the students did their homework? ;-)

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#33

Post by Egregore » Wed, May 25, 2011, 1:06 PM UTC

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #31

Egregore wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain, why do you think that replacing face-to-face lessons is bad?

If the lessons replaced are nothing but teacher-to-student lecturing then little is lost. However, all my best teachers employed more of a Socratic method. That method cannot be substituted with a recording. This program could work well with the Socratic method if students come to class to debate and present the material they studied at home.

Unfortunately a lot of lessons are just teacher to student lecturing.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#34

Post by edtechdev » Wed, May 25, 2011, 1:35 PM UTC

I wish them the best, but there is no information on the website.

There's not even a video of what the tool is like. If it requires digital tablets to use, does it only run on windows, or the ipad, or android...

And as rameshnid points out, most teachers don't have the free time, the inclination, or possibly the skill to create their own multimedia-based lessons and homework activities from scratch.

Ultimately I think, many educational innovators are forgetting the fundamental problems with education - only 30% of students who go through the process end up proficient in reading, math, and science. And even many of those who are proficient end up not learning much at all in college and have serious misconceptions. They don't really learn until thrown into the world later on. See for example the opening of the video Minds of Our Own, where Harvard & MIT graduates given a battery, bulb, and wire can't even make the bulb light: http://www.learner.org/resources/series26.html Or Jerome Epstein's work, which found a significant percentage of college students only had an 8th grade or even 4th grade level of understanding of math.

Overcoming these and other misconceptions involves more constructivist and interactive techniques that lectures and flashcards and drill & kill software don't address.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#35

Post by JabavuAdams » Wed, May 25, 2011, 2:04 PM UTC

If you want to sell this to teachers, you need to talk about how you will decrease their prep. time. Any hint of increasing prep. time is a show-stopper.

E.g. I do about 2-4 hours of unpaid work for every paid hour in the classroom.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#36

Post by andrewce » Wed, May 25, 2011, 2:23 PM UTC

This seems like it could be really useful when paired with "The Gutenberg Method" (http://entropysite.oxy.edu/morrison.html), which basically asks students to do the assigned reading at home, along with some type of annotation of "Here's what to look for".

Then, in class the next day, the teacher answers any questions, briefly covers any difficult concepts, and they can spend the rest of the class-time engaging with each other instead of lecturing.

My suspicion (disclaimer: I was, at one point, a teacher) is that if you want people to use this service, you'll have to show how it improves instruction, and you'll have to do so in much more concrete terms than you have here.

That said, if I ever have a classroom of my own again, I can see myself using this tool when appropriate.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#37

Post by pflats » Wed, May 25, 2011, 3:09 PM UTC

Egregore wrote: post #33

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the lessons replaced are nothing but teacher-to-student lecturing then little is lost. However, all my best teachers employed more of a Socratic method. That method cannot be substituted with a recording. This program could work well with the Socratic method if students come to class to debate and present the material they studied at home.

Unfortunately a lot of lessons are just teacher to student lecturing.

True, but software isn't going to solve that. (Note: I am a classroom teacher.)

Teacher to student lecturing happens for a combination of three reasons:

1. The teacher believes it's the best way to present the material.

2. Generally, a lecture is easier to prepare (and easier to keep on task) than any other form of instruction.

3. To the average person (and many administrators) a classroom full of children sitting silently in rows, all taking notes, looks "right".

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#38

Post by michaeldhopkins » Wed, May 25, 2011, 10:18 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #32

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the lessons replaced are nothing but teacher-to-student lecturing then little is lost. However, all my best teachers employed more of a Socratic method. That method cannot be substituted with a recording. This program could work well with the Socratic method if students come to class to debate and present the material they studied at home.

You mean, if the students did their homework? ;-)

Yes, which is the opposite of the proposal to have the teaching at home and the homework in class. But I think any distinctions are not helpful to the students.

In a good class there is no distinction between learning from the teacher and the teacher's assigned material because each is required to excel in critically debating and responding to the other.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#39

Post by dhimes » Thu, May 26, 2011, 2:22 PM UTC

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #38

dhimes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, if the students did their homework? ;-)

Yes, which is the opposite of the proposal to have the teaching at home and the homework in class. But I think any distinctions are not helpful to the students. In a good class there is no distinction between learning from the teacher and the teacher's assigned material because each is required to excel in critically debating and responding to the other.

I totally agree. In fact, I am working toward a private beta release of lesson planning software which actually helps teachers build quality lessons.

Re: Open: A tool for teachers to create and share lessons with their students

#40

Post by michaeldhopkins » Sun, May 29, 2011, 3:53 AM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #39

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, which is the opposite of the proposal to have the teaching at home and the homework in class. But I think any distinctions are not helpful to the students. In a good class there is no distinction between learning from the teacher and the teacher's assigned material because each is required to excel in critically debating and responding to the other.

I totally agree. In fact, I am working toward a private beta release of lesson planning software which actually helps teachers build quality lessons.

I and my wife are educators among other things and want to try this. Please notify me at @mdhopkins or michael at oblique ideas dot com when you're testing.