Live data from Hacker News

Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

heartrhythmjournal.com

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#31
post #20

Editorialized title. The actual is: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets The article is about the iPhone 12. Just pointing out that magnets aren’t specific to the iPhone.

Editorialized is if the title express the posters opinion. It does not. If anything it makes it more clear.

No idea why he is downvoted. He is factually correct as can be seen in merriam-webster and the cambridge dictionary:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/editorialize

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/editoria...

As the title is just more informative, but not expressing an opinion, calling it editorialized is wrong.

And as a matter of fact, because of this comment I just learned a new word and how to use it correctly.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#32
post #6

> Once the iPhone was brought close to the ICD over the left chest area, immediate suspension of ICD therapies was noted which persisted for the duration of the test. Yeah so if you have a pace maker, try not to put magnets near your heart. The main practical impact for smart phone users with pacemakers seems to be that you shouldn’t carry a phone with a magnet mount in your breast pocket. The article also mentions W…

Anything with strong magnets has a warning about not to use near a pacemaker. Does iPhone 12 come with such a warning?

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#33
post #26

Seems like a failure in pacemaker design? The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets so there is no confusion between mobile phone or the kill switch key.

> The pacemaker kill switch should simply need much stronger magnets

'simply' here is code for 'will require changes, perhaps significant, to therapeutic processes and medical infrastructure in hospitals and other medical facilities across the planet'.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#34
post #2

It's worth noting that almost anything with a magnetic field can interfere with a pacemaker, for instance induction hobs. Given the pervasiveness of, well, magnets (!), it's probably worth investing in pacemaker research which takes this into account ...

Or, you know, a fridge magnet when carried on a pocket

Hey, cool idea, if I put a small steel plate on the other side, I can wear my favourite fridge magnets instead of pins! Lucky I don't have a pacemaker...

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#35
It took a while for me to parse the title...

So the key takeaway is: if you have a pacemaker or an implanted defibrillator, don't put your phone in your breast pocket? But I imagine people are already told to avoid that, just to minimize the risk of radio interference? Of course, this turns a remote possibility of impacting the functionality into a near-certainty (if the magnet is strong enough).

BTW these iPhones are not the first phones that contain magnets. The Moto Z range, which has been around since 2016, has accessories ("Moto Mods") that are attached magnetically. The magnets are in the accessories, but since one backplate is shipped with the phone, most people will probably have that attached.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#36
I have a pacemaker. Rule from the start: keep cell phones 6” away from it, minimum, always. Radio interference at very close range is a potential problem.

This article, while interesting and a reminder, just continues the rule.

Tangent: a few years back I got an electric car. After delivery, I read the manual - every other page had warnings for patients with implanted electronic devices. Doc & I were intrigued, discussed it often, and there was never a problem.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#37
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't tend to hug their hobs though...

Hobs output >2 kW, phones just... don’t (edit: i.e range of magnetic field is longer)

I'd expect the "receiver"/pot to deform the field enough as to not matter anymore at those distances. Plus, inductive hobs around here tend to detect the presence of a pot and not just try pumping 2kW of energy into "nothing". And you're comparing a dynamically pulsed EM field with the static M field of the alignment magnets - they might be able to heat the reed, but might just not be able actually trigger it (edit: to clarify, that's my guess; I'd expect manufacturers of either devices [ICDs and hobs] to test for potentially lethal problems).

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#38
I'll give some context here, since I put magnets on people's pacemakers fairly often. Magnets for at least 10 years now is a standard, controlled way to trigger a secondary mode in a pacemaker/defibrillator. Almost always, if the device has both pacemaking and defibrillating capability, the magnet will turn off the ICD (although it is possible to program other behaviors). This allows clinicians to easily stop a patient from being defibrillated inappropriately. That sort of thing could happen during malfunction, electrical interference from cautery tools during surgery near the device, or refractory shockable rhythms.

If there is no defibrillating capability, magnets usually (although not always) put the device into an asynchronous mode. This presents the (extremely unlikely) risk of something serious, like R-on-T, where an electric pulse could be sent to the heart at exactly the wrong time, leading to a life-threatening arrhythmia. More commonly, it means the heart is less effective at pumping blood but probably still within allowable, if not optimal for long periods of time, output.

In both cases, unless the device is programmed strangely, the device resumes normal function when removing the magnet. However, there's the theoretical risk of some sort of malfunction-- so when switching modes with a magnet my practice is to refer patients to getting their devices checked out afterwards. Obviously, if something triggered the "magnet mode" surreptitiously, it may not be noticed until some time later, particularly in patients who are not being actively followed by medical care.

I didn't mention it's actually kind of difficult to getting a magent over these things. I generally tape it over the area that the pacemaker is in, but you have to watch for it moving because, well, it's hard to stick something on somebody's skin. Pacemakers are generally put in the left upper chest, sort of between the nipple and the clavicle. The idea you should have is-- well-- it's not easy to trigger this even with a purpose-built magnet in a slightly-higher-then normal breast pocket. But, still possible of course, and the results could be disastrous, particularly in the event of a malfunction.

The practice of using magnets is kind of universally and internationally understood by medical practitioners and device manufacturers. Which means, transitioning away could cause some harm just by medical errors. I don't think a solution to this is particularly easy, although many devices now get regular interrogations which would show if iPhones actually are triggering the mode switch. Which sort of means, iPhone "interference" could happen but probably isn't really happening as far as anyone knows.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#39
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

Many men? If you are wearing a suit, a smartphone makes the trouser pockets bulge a lot, so it's common to keep it in your shirt pocket or jacket inside pocket - Both of which is next to your heart.

And quite a lot of shirts do as well.

Re: Life Saving Therapy Inhibition by Phones Containing Magnets

#40
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't tend to hug their hobs though...

How many people put their phone in their "upper pockets"? Or even have "upper pockets"?

I do. I don't leave it there generally, but its often easier to get my phone in and out of my shirt pocket when I am seated, crouched, or otherwise actively engaged with something and I don't want to stand up.
Post reply on HN