Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If you want peace, study war

persuasion.community

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 223 posts

Re: If you want peace, study war

#31

Post by bigmattystyles »

adwn wrote: post #23
sudhirj wrote: post #16

There are notes in Sapiens proposing that war (the violent kind) is no longer useful / does not produce outcomes because the global economy has shifted from one of physical resources to knowledge based. That it no longer makes sense to fight over things that aren't worth as much these days, like land, oil or gold, when you can just trade. Most of money comes from peace time commerce. This seems accurate, but time wil…

> [...] because the global economy has shifted from one of physical resources to knowledge based ...except for that tiny detail where we're still critically dependent on raw materials that can only be economically extracted in certain parts of the world. Maybe mathematicians only need a blackboard and some chalk to do their work, but the remaining "knowledge based" economy needs computers, of which many parts are pro…

And to boot, mathematicians tend to prefer Japanese chalk, so even that...

Re: If you want peace, study war

#32

Post by [deleted] »

chmod600 wrote: post #5

I have a theory that offensive weaponry advancements produce peace, while defensive advancements produce war. If you're in a castle, it's easier to send armies around, knowing that you'll be safe. But if there are nukes and ICBMs, just stick with the status quo. Any validity to this theory?

[deleted]

Re: If you want peace, study war

#33

Post by taneq »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #31
adwn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] because the global economy has shifted from one of physical resources to knowledge based ...except for that tiny detail where we're still critically dependent on raw materials that can only be economically extracted in certain parts of the world. Maybe mathematicians only need a blackboard and some chalk to do their work, but the remaining "knowledge based" economy needs computers, of which many parts are pro…

And to boot, mathematicians tend to prefer Japanese chalk, so even that...

Yeah, but they CAN do their work with a pencil, or even a crayon. That particular brand of Japanese chalk just happens to be nice.

Re: If you want peace, study war

#34

Post by heja2009 »

tomalpha wrote: post #10
chmod600 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you want peace, study the historical reasons for conflicts and how to avoid them I've always heard: if you want peace, prepare for war

From the classic Latin “Si vis pacem para bellum” [0] I’d always interpreted this to imply that deterrence was good - appear strong to prevent others picking a fight with you, rather than studying. I always wondered if the 9mm Parabellum cartridge was named after the saying too, but no such enlightenment is available on the Wikipedia page at least [1] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum [1]…

Yes, it is derived from the saying.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabellumpistole

Re: If you want peace, study war

#35

Post by Uberphallus »

skinkestek wrote: post #9
chmod600 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you want peace, study the historical reasons for conflicts and how to avoid them I've always heard: if you want peace, prepare for war

My father would drill that into me as a kid. That and the fact that war is not like in books or movies: it is ugly and best avoided.

Also interesting how that's the approach of Krav Maga as martial art. The 1st rule is, run if you can. The 2nd rule is, finish the fight ASAP and run. The rest derives from those two rules.

Re: If you want peace, study war

#37

Post by toopok4k3 »

golergka wrote: post #27
jakubp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh boy. In my country, memories of war (World War II in particular), tragedies, sacrifices, "heroes" etc. are continually fueled by the ruling party. They built hundreds of new monuments in the past 10 years, gave thousands of streets names related to their selection of war and post-war heroes, etc. Let me tell you, this is the main way to drive nationalistic divide, because the other half of the people in the countr…

Nationalistic drive has nothing in common with the real memories of tragedies and horrors of the war.

But nationalistic drive has everything in common with how wars start.

Re: If you want peace, study war

#38

Post by stareatgoats »

chmod600 wrote: post #4
liquidify wrote: post #2

I think the author's point could be broadened to just say, if you want peace, study the historical reasons for conflicts and how to avoid them. Or even more broadly, if you want peace, study history and make it an important part of your decision making process.

> if you want peace, study the historical reasons for conflicts and how to avoid them I've always heard: if you want peace, prepare for war

> I've always heard: if you want peace, prepare for war

Yes, this is conventional wisdom. But it's time to give it up and try something new before someone accidentally annihilates the world as we know it.

Studying history is not a bad start.

Re: If you want peace, study war

#39

Post by arethuza »

Danieru wrote: post #28
roenxi wrote: post #14

The scary thing for me about wars is that the soldiers aren't the ones making the decisions. Some group of people in comfortable offices look at a map, says "yeah, I think this option is more favourable to us than peace". Then a war happens. It is all about incentives and capabilities. One of the lessons from being a Stallman watcher for many years - people are profoundly evidence based . If there hasn't been a war i…

> The scary thing for me about wars is that the soldiers aren't the ones making the decisions. Letting Soldiers & Generals control the military is the exact mistake which lead to Japan's military aggression. Keeping the head of the military a civilian/politician is perhaps one of the few ideas everyone should be able to agree is smart.

The Cuban Missile Crisis is another example where if things had been left purely to the militaries of both sides things would probably have escalated very badly.

Re: If you want peace, study war

#40

Post by Ancapistani »

sudhirj wrote: post #16

There are notes in Sapiens proposing that war (the violent kind) is no longer useful / does not produce outcomes because the global economy has shifted from one of physical resources to knowledge based. That it no longer makes sense to fight over things that aren't worth as much these days, like land, oil or gold, when you can just trade. Most of money comes from peace time commerce. This seems accurate, but time wil…

I don’t have a citation in front of me at four in the morning, but I distinctly recall this exact argument being made prior to the First World War - that the increasing trade between the major powers precluded war because the financial interests were too powerful.
Post reply on HN