BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#31

Post by stragies » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

Narishma wrote: post #18

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #9

Interesting, I might get myself one of these to play with. But the board has an HDMI output, however the description doesn't describe the specifications on display processor / GPU functionality, or even if it's just a simple framebuffer, etc. There's specifications on Video processing, but I get the impression this is for camera / video input, not output.

According to [0] the first revision will just have a framebuffer, later ones an unspecified Imagination GPU. 0 - https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/01/13/beaglev-powerful-ope...

That means PowerVR, most likely. Bad news, no useable drivers ever existed for mainline linux kernel for any PowerVR CPU

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#32

Post by gjsman-1000 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

WatchDog wrote: post #12

Is the SiFive U74 open source? I know the RISC-V ISA is, but I thought the SiFive designs were proprietary.

Open source refers solely to the software side of things in these groups and types of projects. Thus, all of the drivers and software you need to use the SiFive is open source and thus you can say it is an open source design. However, it is not an "open hardware" design in that the IP used to design the chip is not released.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#33

Post by rwmj » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

fctorial wrote: post #7

Where's the source code?

I don't think it's open source. RISC-V is an open ISA, but implementations are not required to be open source (although there are many implementations which are).

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#34

Post by joana035 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

stragies wrote: post #24

WatchDog wrote: post #12

Is the SiFive U74 open source? I know the RISC-V ISA is, but I thought the SiFive designs were proprietary.

The processor maybe, but what about the e.g. USB3 controller, WIFI, etc, that can also freely snoop around your memory. Are there even open USB3 implementations?

> that can also freely snoop around your memory.

Can them? Even with IOMMU?

EDIT: I don't think so.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#35

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

WatchDog wrote: post #12

Is the SiFive U74 open source? I know the RISC-V ISA is, but I thought the SiFive designs were proprietary.

Looks like their Hard IP is proprietary but based on open high-level designs such as Rocket and BOOM. The peripherals situation is mixed, but they've stated in the past that they're quite OK with using open designs whenever feasible.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#36

Post by deepGem » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #27

filleokus wrote: post #11

What kind of performance is expected from this compared to say the RPi 4B? Any noteworthy changes in performance characteristics (e.g better/worse I/O or something)?

Highly unlikely to be very competitive. At this stage it's about getting RISC-V hardware into developers' hands, and previous boards either cost $1000 or were limited in ways where they could not run Linux well. (I am one of the Fedora/RISC-V maintainers.)

Just saw this SiFive board HiFive is retailing for $679, can you please comment if this is any good for toying around ? Specs look more than decent - almost desktop class computing.

https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive-unmatched

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#37

Post by coder543 » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #32

WatchDog wrote: post #12

Is the SiFive U74 open source? I know the RISC-V ISA is, but I thought the SiFive designs were proprietary.

Open source refers solely to the software side of things in these groups and types of projects. Thus, all of the drivers and software you need to use the SiFive is open source and thus you can say it is an open source design. However, it is not an "open hardware" design in that the IP used to design the chip is not released.

> However, it is not an "open hardware" design in that the IP used to design the chip is not released.

The marketing page for the BeagleV specifically says "Open Hardware Design", but I agree that they probably didn't mean Open Hardware beyond just the PCB layout or something similar.

It would be very surprising if they released the detailed schematics for the SiFive cores. Until there's some kind of common micro-fab standard where every major university can have a legit semiconductor fab for small scale operations, giving people the design doesn't really do much.

I really wish that someone would work on the problem of making affordable, small-scale semiconductor fabrication possible on a reasonably modern node (<= 32nm). It's a hard problem... but everyone in the world being dependent on a few large fabs is also a hard problem.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#38

Post by tyingq » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

filleokus wrote: post #11

What kind of performance is expected from this compared to say the RPi 4B? Any noteworthy changes in performance characteristics (e.g better/worse I/O or something)?

The Rpi4B has a Quad-core Cortex-A72 (ARM v8) 64-bit SoC @ 1.5 GHz with 1MB L2 cache. The A72 claims 4.7 DMIPS/MHz.

This board has a Dual-core U74 (RV64GC) 64-bit SoC @ 1.5 GHz with 2MB L2 cache. The U74 claims 2.5 DMIPS/MHz.

So, roughly 1/4 as fast as a RPIi 4B given the roughly half DMIPS/MHz and half the cores?

That, of course, is a really rough guess, ignoring lots of potential variables.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#39

Post by archanox » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

scoopr wrote: post #28

Does it have an GPU? I can't quite decipher the specs. Random googling suggests that SiFive have partnered with PowerVR for GPU, which might even enable vulkan support, but I suppose this SoC is not one of those?

As per the Ars link;

> The initial pilot run of BeagleV will use the Vision DSP hardware as a graphics processor, allowing a full graphical desktop environment under Fedora. Following hardware runs will include an unspecified model of Imagine GPU as well.

Re: BeagleV – An affordable RISC-V computer designed to run Linux

#40

Post by alkonaut » Wed, Jan 13, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

Can someone explain the technical benefits of this architecture over the competition? That is should I be excited if I don't care about e.g. openness? Or is it simply an effort to create something that is a half-decent cpu alternative but open?

Is there anything about RISC-V that is "better" simply because it is a later design than others? Is it likely to evolve faster because it is open or more modern?