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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

ibtimes.sg

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#31

Post by whimsicalism »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
whimsicalism wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They look bribery the other way the great majority of the time. Everyone does it, but when they want you, they have air tight, iron clad evidence against you and everyone they need to take down. Perhaps in the China of the past, but I don't think the low-level bribery you see in places like Nigeria or India is incredibly common in China anymore.

I imagine CCP support of WeChat and similar digital currency systems is to suss out this activity.

WeChat and Alipay are effectively the only two, and you're almost certainly right. I'm not opposed to that per se either.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#33

Post by marcus_holmes »

rorykoehler wrote: post #26
xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

I guess they should be prepared for reciprocal actions. They bought up a lot of strategic real estate sound the world including in Europe

"they" being the CCP, or high-net-worth Chinese nationals attempting to get their money out of China?

Because if the latter, then the CCP is not going to give a monkey's what happens to that property. The CCP has been trying to stop rich Chinese from investing outside China for years now.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#34

Post by rorykoehler »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #33
rorykoehler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they should be prepared for reciprocal actions. They bought up a lot of strategic real estate sound the world including in Europe

"they" being the CCP, or high-net-worth Chinese nationals attempting to get their money out of China? Because if the latter, then the CCP is not going to give a monkey's what happens to that property. The CCP has been trying to stop rich Chinese from investing outside China for years now.

CCP. I’m talking shipping ports, infra investments etc

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#35

Post by xster »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #11
xster wrote: post #3

Is it me or there's some cognitive dissonance going on with the whole article discussing the ramifications of a nationalization without describing at all what sourced this "news" in the first place? A cursory search seems to show this is a regurgitation on a sourceless Radio Free Asia article ( https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/alibaba-probe-1225202... ) from December?

I think the CCP is mostly at fault. They wanted to control and limit discussion and even news on alibaba so of course people are going to speculate in the absence of information.

How are you sourcing that conclusion? I'm not well versed but I enjoy watching finance related UGC and analyses on Bilibili. There's certainly tons of in-depth content and discussion about Ant's leveraging practices and the involvement of financial regulations.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#36

Post by star-trek-fleet »

xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

> The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth

Chinese people are jointly invest in that venture, by (not limited to):

* Sacrifice family and personal time, by hundreds of millions of passent migration workers.

* Sacrifice health and life quality, even today 996 still a norm, and you can imagine what have been since the opening up

* Environment, early pollution has harmed the people's health and well-being

* Mental health, stressful working time, lack of support

At the top, it was CCP and Western capitalists grabbed most of the profit, but leaving the waste to be suffered by the people.

Case in point, Alibaba's success is a CCP sanctioned monopoly and unfair market competition. I pity Jack Ma's treatment from CCP, I don't pity him as a citizen, he already enjoyed too much beyond what he actually deserves.

As such, I do welcome campaign like the poverty elimination [1]. If CCP does nationalize alibaba and use that to help rural areas to gain access to market, I consider that a positive thing for the vast majority of the poor.

[1] https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-11-27/china-...

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#37

Post by nemothekid »

xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

This is just modern day colonialism - as a leader of a country do you resign to paying a tax to foreign powers forever, or do draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.

What is interesting is China is even powerful enough to do this. This isn't new - it's what Iran tried under Mosaddegh, and it's a story oft repeated in South America, and each case there is suddenly a CIA backed coup who fights against nationalization.

I don't think China would see any blowback from this - the idea that it would prevent future investment in China is like saying Europe would stop investing in the US after the American revolution; as long as there is some alpha to be made in an economy as large as China's, I'd expect them to still see foreign capital.

I think what it more interesting is the concentration of power in the CCP elite and how that power is wielded. On one side you have the "communist" dream where the nationalization of Alibaba is felt by all Chinese citizens who are given more through socialization - one can imagine what China would look like in another 15 years if they focused on further educating and strengthing their citizenry; its the progressive left's "dream" for America. On the other hand, it's also likely you end up in a situation where power corrupts and nationalization is just an excuse to enrich Xi and his inner circle.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#39

Post by bmitc »

orange_tee wrote: post #32

The West thought once China is full of billionaires, the billionaires having all that wealth would then have the power to oppose and dissolve the CCP. Didn't go as planned.

How's it working in the U.S. where billionaires are dissolving the U.S. government?
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