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Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

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Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#31

Post by grzm »

Spiwux wrote: post #22
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

Not only that, Merkel's party is a significant driver in laws and regulations that reduce user internet anonymity. Considering that multiple politicians voiced this opinion at surprisingly similar time this seems like some coordinated PR thing. They probably just realised that the same could happen to them and that they might have their communication channels cut off when they inevitably try to break up the big US te…

> "multiple politicians voiced this opinion at surprisingly similar time this seems like some coordinated PR thing"

It's not "surprisingly similar" when a lot of people start putting on jackets when it gets cold. Reactions to a common cause does not require coordinated action.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#32

Post by matz1 »

aeyes wrote: post #20
Spiwux wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a private business should be able to chose their customers and decline business for any reason A much bigger issue is the fact that public opinion and discourse happens exclusively on private platforms who each have their own interests

> I think a private business should be able to chose their customers and decline business for any reason A private business should not be able to turn down your business because of the color of your skin, your race, your political background, ...

Not every body agree with that, a lot of people prefer private business should be able to chose their customers and decline business for any reason.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#33

Post by theandrewbailey »

krona wrote: post #10
skrowl wrote: post #2

The fact that Europeans are standing up for free speech while the United States is not speaks volumes to how things have changed in the US over the last few decades. Have our politics really gone so far down the "Win at all costs! Censor all other opinions!" rabbit hole that speech here is now less free than Europe? Before you parrot the "but.. but... inciting violence" talking point in reply, try to find an actual s…

The first amendment never anticipated the public square to be privately owned. Unfortunately I feel things will have to get much worse before people start listening to the adults in the room again, and enact sensible reforms.

There is a case precedent of a privately owned public space being subject to the First Amendment. Who knows if that would hold up when applied to the internet, something about holding state-level powers... if the platform was declared as a monopoly, would that apply?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_v._Alabama

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Community_Access_Cor...

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#34

Post by GarrisonPrime »

Someone1234 wrote: post #9
skrowl wrote: post #2

The fact that Europeans are standing up for free speech while the United States is not speaks volumes to how things have changed in the US over the last few decades. Have our politics really gone so far down the "Win at all costs! Censor all other opinions!" rabbit hole that speech here is now less free than Europe? Before you parrot the "but.. but... inciting violence" talking point in reply, try to find an actual s…

> try to find an actual source of President Trump calling for violence on Twitter. Don't believe everything you read. On 9:53 PM, 28 May 2020 he said: > ....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting start…

Clearly, the comment meant baseless violence. Violence to protect the helpless from violence is acceptable.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#35

Post by davewritescode »

commandlinefan wrote: post #12
Spiwux wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a private business should be able to chose their customers and decline business for any reason A much bigger issue is the fact that public opinion and discourse happens exclusively on private platforms who each have their own interests

I think that they should then be held liable for any harm caused by what they choose to keep.

Which is ironically was eliminating section 230 would've have made happen. Repealing section 230 may have lead to the Disneyification of social media.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#36

Post by Arnt »

user-the-name wrote: post #16
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. It's the second paragraph of the article.

The US law laws for free speech, and it has societal norms, too. What norms people expect to apply in the fora they use, most prominently Facebook.

So they haven't updated their laws to match the current society's norms, and the result is that Facebook has to write rules for something approximating all of society. That cannot be simple for Facebook, and I think it's a bit cowardly of the two big parties that neither of them have really tried to bring the law into harmony with current perception of justice and acceptability.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#38

Post by GarrisonPrime »

trident5000 wrote: post #8

I'm looking past Trump. The tech cartel can not only decide which party wins elections, they can decide which candidates within the winning party keep their seats. And they are getting more and more desperate to shape politics as they run from anti-trust. For me its too much power.

A fair enough opinion, and a worthy discussion. But this particular issue of Trump’s Twitter suspension is clearly about not giving delusional lunatics more fodder for their actions, rather than silencing Trump.

Edit: I’m not siding with or against Twitter here. Whether their decision was wise or not certainly needs to be discussed. I’m just pointing out that “silencing the lunatic in the White House” isn’t the only potential explanation for their suspension of Trump’s account.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#39

Post by refurb »

user-the-name wrote: post #23
refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies. This is about who gets to make the decisions, not what the decisions are.

Right. That was her point. Free speech is at risk when it’s Zuckerberg making the call.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#40

Post by eplanit »

goto11 wrote: post #13
krona wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment never anticipated the public square to be privately owned. Unfortunately I feel things will have to get much worse before people start listening to the adults in the room again, and enact sensible reforms.

What would sensible reforms looks like in your opinion?

Repeal section 230 protections.... govern them like utility companies...
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