Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters • Hacker News Board

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#31

Post by akhilcacharya » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #17

ondrek wrote: post #5

It seems that face recognition could be as dangerous as country laws are. China's social credit system is a strong mirror to its government. The Black Mirror scenario with all those people scared to even talk publicly could (if once real) be strongly country specific, if we get to the point, where life drastically depend on ethics of technology laws.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

Complaining about "cancel culture" with regard to a mob that literally tried to cancel the votes of 81 million people is hilariously missing the point.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#32

Post by trianglem » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Yeah facial recognition is just bad. We have pictures and a populace ready and willing to root these terrorists out as we’ve seen so far.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#33

Post by lijogdfljk » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #12

sillysaurusx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." It's not my place to go around quoting the rules, but I was just hoping to calm the waters a little bit. We could all use a bit of "let's step back and talk this over rather than argue passionately for a position," I think. E.g. the article is about the implication of AI on society at large.

This is BS, with all due respect. Are people not allowed to express strong, lucid, and well-reasoned opinions on existentially important topics?

According to those rules you just read, not always. Not sure why that's difficult to comprehend or accept.

Just like how Twitter isn't required to spew Trump's bullshit, HN isn't required to support forms of discourse it does not see as constructive or beneficial.

Does this sound controversial to you?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#34

Post by Master_Odin » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:13 PM UTC

jackson1442 wrote: post #24

Youden wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. Why is that a problem? Are there any investigative tools that are perfect or is there a reason why facial recognition should be held to a higher standard? > It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. You need to be more specific. Why is it no better? Has facial recognition been demonstrated to lead to more unjust arrests than…

The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study…

At least in this instance, the racial biases of facial recognition will not be a problem for the overwhelming white mob.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#35

Post by jackson1442 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #17

ondrek wrote: post #5

It seems that face recognition could be as dangerous as country laws are. China's social credit system is a strong mirror to its government. The Black Mirror scenario with all those people scared to even talk publicly could (if once real) be strongly country specific, if we get to the point, where life drastically depend on ethics of technology laws.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

In reality, cancel culture is just the free market at work and has always felt, to me, like a narrative peddled by the powerful to allow themselves to not be held accountable for their actions.

If I don't want to buy a Musk-mobile because I don't agree with Musk on issues like racism[0] or don't like how he treats his employees[1], I am allowed to act on it. I am also allowed to share these thoughts with people on appropriate platforms, like I'm doing here.

I can understand the frustration coming from people digging up problematic tweets from 4 years ago, but this whole idea that "the internet forgets nothing" isn't new. I learned it in grade school. If you want to post racist/sexist/homophobic things on your public Twitter, so be it, but don't be surprised when someone finds it. There's also a delete button.

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/30/18119832/tesla-elon-musk...

[1] https://www.ibtimes.com/elon-musk-hot-water-after-tesla-empl...

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#36

Post by eznzt » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

>I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition

???

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#37

Post by jonas21 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

rychco wrote: post #4

I realize that this is one of those situations where I'm supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition, but I'm still uncomfortable. Facial recognition seems like an all or nothing deal to me, and even after the capitol has been raided... I still opt for 'nothing'.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel like you're supposed to be supportive of the use of facial recognition in this case?

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#38

Post by heyoni » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

eplanit wrote: post #23

mmmBacon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

True, but what's frightening now is that the mob/SJWs are aligned (mostly) with the new administration, whose party has swept up all power in the government.

No one swept up all of the power. It’s insane to say that just because democrats are in control. There’s an entire spectrum of opinions and differences within the party that is being set aside in order to fight for some common beliefs...like ending the war on drugs, the war on the female reproductive system, and the war on education.

There’s a baseline among progressives which, once reached, will create entirely new divisions, trust me.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#39

Post by DangerousPie » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

jackson1442 wrote: post #24

Youden wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Problem with this is that facial recognition is not perfect. Why is that a problem? Are there any investigative tools that are perfect or is there a reason why facial recognition should be held to a higher standard? > It's no better than fnger printing which often leads to unjust arrests. You need to be more specific. Why is it no better? Has facial recognition been demonstrated to lead to more unjust arrests than…

The problems come from when it is hailed as perfect and arrests are made solely on a facial recognition result[0]. Facial recognition has also time and time again proven to be racially biased[1][2]. Not to mention how easy it is to create a surveillance state with facial recognition[3]. [0] https://threatpost.com/lawsuit-claims-flawed-facial-recognit... [1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/19/tech/facial-recognition-study…

Nobody is suggesting arresting anyone solely based on facial recognition.

Re: Clearview AI being used to identify Capitol rioters

#40

Post by jonathanlb » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

mmmBacon wrote: post #17

ondrek wrote: post #5

It seems that face recognition could be as dangerous as country laws are. China's social credit system is a strong mirror to its government. The Black Mirror scenario with all those people scared to even talk publicly could (if once real) be strongly country specific, if we get to the point, where life drastically depend on ethics of technology laws.

I think we already have a system in the West where people are afraid to speak openly; it’s referred to as cancel culture but exists elsewhere. The difference is that it’s not a formal government system but more of a mob social justice system.

“Cancel culture” is also not new. Indigenous societies were “canceled” by Spanish missionaries and Indian schools, gay and trans people have been “canceled” by bigots, political activists “canceled” by COINTELPRO, and communist sympathizers canceled by Joe McCarthy.

So, “cancel culture” been a matter of fact, at least in the US, for quite some time now. It’s just given a scary name when those who have been “canceled” in the past are doing the “canceling”.