31–40 of 45 posts
The police selfie from breached property is ... interesting https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520?ref...
vs the police officer who was bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, they stormed the seat of power of the legislature, halted the process of officially determining the next president, and caused the evacuation of a joint session of Congress, all quite literally under the banner of the loser of the election. How successful at it do they have to be to even rise to "attempt" in your mind? The people who came in armed and with zip-tie flex cuffs, what were they attempting to do?
In my opinion this was a sloppy mob that bum rushed reprehensible security and got farther than they ever expected. People die in riots all of the time, I don't really see what elevates this to anything beyond that...the process got stalled for a few hours and then proceeded. If you want to call it a coup attempt be my guest, I just think it's histrionic.
coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?
We don’t have a word as popular and overused as “coup” to describe the attempt to shut down the transfer of power. But this did involve the storming of a legislature in session in a obvious attempt to thwart the proceedings in a power grab. It was poorly organized but seemed premeditated on the part of many participants.
I mean, that's a coup attempt. There's no need to look for another term. It was an incompetent coup attempt, sure, but the term still applies.
coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, they stormed the seat of power of the legislature, halted the process of officially determining the next president, and caused the evacuation of a joint session of Congress, all quite literally under the banner of the loser of the election. How successful at it do they have to be to even rise to "attempt" in your mind? The people who came in armed and with zip-tie flex cuffs, what were they attempting to do?
In my opinion this was a sloppy mob that bum rushed reprehensible security and got farther than they ever expected. People die in riots all of the time, I don't really see what elevates this to anything beyond that...the process got stalled for a few hours and then proceeded. If you want to call it a coup attempt be my guest, I just think it's histrionic.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both a successful and failed coup are attempts to seize power. It seems to me that failed coups are more obvious because successful ones can rewrite themselves to avoid being mistaken as riots. If you can't tell this is a coup, then it might be your first -- the punchline from: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trumps-far... Riots are sudden, violent and illegal. This was a riot organized to specifica…
> This was a riot organized to specifically stop the transfer of power. How? This is the part I'm missing. Yes it got stalled for a few hours while everything was going down, but after folks got their selfies and pilfered swag it was done. I'm not sure this motely crew really anticipated squaring off against the US Secret Service and National Guard to indefinitely suppress the transfer of power.
By intimidation, at a minimum, and potentially (though this wasn't acheived) by (potentially selective) destruction of the electoral vote certificates and violence against the persons of legislators (including the Vice President, who some involved have pointed to as a specific target.)
> Yes it got stalled for a few hours while everything was going down, but after folks got their selfies and pilfered swag it was done.
That's because, despite being too overwhelmed to prevent the Capitol from being taken, the security forces at the Capitol were able to execute an effective delaying and evacuation effort, getting the legislators and electoral votes to safety.
> Yes it got stalled for a few hours while everything was going down, but after folks got their selfies and pilfered swag it was done.
It wasn't “done”, as many of the insurrectionists explicitly stated the intent to return and continue violence until and unless their goals are met.
coup /ko͞o/ noun 1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Sudden? Sure. Violent? Yes but on the lower end of the spectrum of human conflict. One person got shot by the police, one died of a heart attack, the rest had ‘medical emergencies’. (Edit: An officer died after being attacked by one of the rioters.) The part I’m not understanding is where was the attempt to seize power?
We don’t have a word as popular and overused as “coup” to describe the attempt to shut down the transfer of power. But this did involve the storming of a legislature in session in a obvious attempt to thwart the proceedings in a power grab. It was poorly organized but seemed premeditated on the part of many participants.
The more technical term for the kind of coup attempted (an extension of power beyond the legitimate term or scope by or on behalf of the current leader, is “auto-coup” or “self-coup”.)
> Another video showed a police officer allowing a rioter to take a selfie with him inside the Capitol The alternative for that officer was violence. While surrounded. The lies coming out of the media (which normally lie he took the selfie with the protesters) at the moment are insane. Sure, "Trump deliberately attempted a coup".... because he's mentally ill. But the media is actually pulling off a real coup by consi…
Trump led the attack, and has motivated an insurgency. The coup is the cooperation between insurgents and the security force. That's why the media is covering the selfie. Trump is currently not mentally-ill enough to be unfit for the Presidency. Of course, that's decided at the Capitol, so it may change after he directed violence toward it. And Fox News agrees with other outlets about the circumstances of five deaths…
No, it's decided in the White House Cabinet Room (well, metaphorically; by the VP and Cabinet, wherever they are located) initially, under the 25th Amendment; Congress isn't involved until he says he's all better after he's been temporarily removed, where if the Cabinet disagrees Congress resolves the dispute.
Whether he is too criminal to continue in office is decided in the Capitol, through the impeachment process, though.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Was it violent? Yes, it was illegal entry by force. Was there plunder? Yes, property was stolen. Was there pillaging? Yes, property was damaged. Was the capitol occupied by an unlawful force having evicting the lawful power? Yes. The entire Congress was evacuated under the threat. A sloppy mob sacked the U.S. capitol, and occupied it for a few hours. If this exact same thing happened to the White House, would you cal…
I think you've encapsulated my problem with the coup talk. Too much imagination and not enough evidence. If they interview people from that group and an actual plan emerges beyond mess up the Capitol building and steal shit I'll eat crow.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both a successful and failed coup are attempts to seize power. It seems to me that failed coups are more obvious because successful ones can rewrite themselves to avoid being mistaken as riots. If you can't tell this is a coup, then it might be your first -- the punchline from: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/trumps-far... Riots are sudden, violent and illegal. This was a riot organized to specifica…
> This was a riot organized to specifically stop the transfer of power. How? This is the part I'm missing. Yes it got stalled for a few hours while everything was going down, but after folks got their selfies and pilfered swag it was done. I'm not sure this motely crew really anticipated squaring off against the US Secret Service and National Guard to indefinitely suppress the transfer of power.
Imagine the legislators didn't escape - that a majority of them were killed. Trump and his people use this as an excuse to illegally "send the vote back to the states." Kelli Ward suggested this while the mob was in the capitol. We were not far from that scenario.