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Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

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Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#31

Post by ff7c11 »

djsumdog wrote: post #19
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #14

Those are some really incredible Covid numbers for Taiwan, just, incredible . Having spent time there and seem some poorer areas and very dense areas, 7 deaths is unbelievably great.

They could also have motivations to use more specific testing or lower PCR amplification cycles. The PCR amplifications of over 40+ in the US and EU lead to many false positives. There could also be genetic factors found in only South East Asians. Also, they're an island, just like NZ. There are a lot of variables, but the biggest factor: they're literally an island.

The UK is also "literally an island", though 4 times as big as Taiwan. Taiwan banned flights from China early on, and now only allows entry to residents and those on business. The UK has still not stopped international travel. Quarantine on arrival in the UK is weak and unenforced, compared to Taiwan where the only way out of the airport is in a quarantine taxi to an approved place and you get tracked by your phone for 2 weeks. By consistently refusing to take timely action, and refusing to take things seriously, the UK forefeited its island advantage.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#32

Post by f430 »

blakesterz wrote: post #2

It's hard to tell why you might want to listen to this from just the title: "But Taiwan has also been taking a relatively experimental approach to the pandemic with technology. Like working with civic hackers to code its way out of the pandemic. Today on the show, we dive into Taiwan's pandemic policies and ask: Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach?"

> Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach?

Would the US ever admit their exceptionalism is perhaps flawed?

Would the Europeans ever admit their exceptionalism led to ignoring Taiwan's alarm bells?

I highly doubt it. They are not stupid, they know what's going on in China and they are not telling everybody else because they are worried of losing credibility as leaders.

Almost all of our current response assumes the Chinese Communist Party is capable of being transparent and honest.

This is what worries me but perhaps the Chinese money has too much sway on YC and Silicon Valley in general to realize you are all being led into a death trap.

Pay attention to January 6th very carefully. A few hedge fund managers I speak to tells me they are hedged for a potentially a massive shock.

Similarly, the market seems to show that Biden's increase in corporate/wealth tax will become a reality at a time when the market desperately needs lower taxes and less punishment for the wealthy.

Some extreme end of the hedge fund managers think that the USD is going to collapse but I believe that this is just another ploy by people who bought Gold years ago are trying to dump their positions on people who buy this shit up.

the USD will never be allowed to fail because the rest of the world's currency is backed by it.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#33

Post by Ericson2314 »

gitgreen wrote: post #11

As a programmer in state government this approach is not feasible for many reasons the chief of which is that at almost every level of government we lack technocrats. In the very unlikely event that one is appointed or hired that has Audrey Tang's(from the podcast, digital minister for Taiwan) background I predict that the amount of pushback received from other levels of government and unions would smother any softwa…

Yes the current Taiwanese government is truly one of the world's finest, and the US governance one of the worst.

One of the reason I enjoy reading https://pedestrianobservations.com/ and other in depth discussions of public transit is that it's really quite the barometer for overall civic function. The rate of new public transit is also a fine derivative, and as such even more "low latency".

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#34

Post by youeseh »

gitgreen wrote: post #11

As a programmer in state government this approach is not feasible for many reasons the chief of which is that at almost every level of government we lack technocrats. In the very unlikely event that one is appointed or hired that has Audrey Tang's(from the podcast, digital minister for Taiwan) background I predict that the amount of pushback received from other levels of government and unions would smother any softwa…

If you update your Hacker News profile with an updated bio and contact info, then perhaps we'd be able to help ;).

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#35

Post by Ericson2314 »

f430 wrote: post #32
blakesterz wrote: post #2

It's hard to tell why you might want to listen to this from just the title: "But Taiwan has also been taking a relatively experimental approach to the pandemic with technology. Like working with civic hackers to code its way out of the pandemic. Today on the show, we dive into Taiwan's pandemic policies and ask: Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach?"

> Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach? Would the US ever admit their exceptionalism is perhaps flawed? Would the Europeans ever admit their exceptionalism led to ignoring Taiwan's alarm bells? I highly doubt it. They are not stupid, they know what's going on in China and they are not telling everybody else because they are worried of losing credibility as leaders. Almost all of our current response assumes th…

Overall yes, but exactly what you mean by "China" here is highly ambiguous.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#36

Post by DonHopkins »

awnird wrote: post #23
zbrozek wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like the "where do I get masks" map don't seem antithetical to personal privacy the way a contact tracing tool is. That's pretty low-hanging fruit that we didn't appear to make any attempt to pick.

I don't think a Masks Map would work in a country where the population believes COVID is fake, and masks are an Islamic plot. Don't you have to address those fundamental issues first?

Trump and QAnon followers in the US don't just believe COVID is fake, they commonly throw tantrums, threaten, and actively attack, and even murder people wearing masks and asking them to wear masks.

QAnon Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene Refuses to Wear Mask at Congressional Swearing-In

https://news.yahoo.com/qanon-congresswoman-marjorie-taylor-g...

St. Louis County man threatens to 'shoot up' church over mask request

https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/st-louis-county-man-threaten...

Family Charged In Security Guard's Death After Mask Dispute

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/0...

US family 'murdered shop guard for enforcing mask policy'

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52540266

NYPD: Woman Attacked By Couple After Asking Them To Wear Face Masks In Elevator

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/11/18/brooklyn-face-mask-a...

ATTACKED FOR WEARING MY MASK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kII1ST3Z2Xk&ab_channel=JonFo...

Men attack Target employee after refusing to wear face mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI5Xbw4ec-0&ab_channel=WPLGL...

Woman attacked in N.J. Staples after asking customer to wear mask

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87kJWYt_foY&ab_channel=NJ.co...

There are many other examples.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#37

Post by Ericson2314 »

s5300 wrote: post #9

Keep in mind that a key feature of government is having a monopoly on violence within its jurisdiction...

In Taiwan the memory of military rule isn't all stale, and the current party in power is the one that is explicitly not the KMT with a romanticized view of the past.

So I'd say the Taiwan situation is excellent Services per Authoritarian buck.

And to turn it around, while armed Civilians do erode the Government monopoly on violence, I will refuse to blame that for our current dysfunction. We suck, without or without the 2nd amendment.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#38

Post by Benneb »

swiley wrote: post #30
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #14

Those are some really incredible Covid numbers for Taiwan, just, incredible . Having spent time there and seem some poorer areas and very dense areas, 7 deaths is unbelievably great.

Last I checked 6 or 7 was also the number of reported Covid deaths in Thailand.

As of right now according to the JHU coronavirus map Thailand has 8439 recorded cases and 65 deaths.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#39

Post by DonHopkins »

machello13 wrote: post #27
tt433 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll address why one would listen: to learn about some ways not to be the epicenter of a pandemic ever again.

Anyone at all responsible for the US being one of the worst countries hit is not browsing HN right now looking to learn new perspectives.

Oh, they show up occasionally, looking to troll, not for new perspectives, but they get downvoted and banned quickly by the community and moderators and eventually go away, because the moderation system works.

Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]

#40

Post by eric_khun »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #33
gitgreen wrote: post #11

As a programmer in state government this approach is not feasible for many reasons the chief of which is that at almost every level of government we lack technocrats. In the very unlikely event that one is appointed or hired that has Audrey Tang's(from the podcast, digital minister for Taiwan) background I predict that the amount of pushback received from other levels of government and unions would smother any softwa…

Yes the current Taiwanese government is truly one of the world's finest, and the US governance one of the worst. One of the reason I enjoy reading https://pedestrianobservations.com/ and other in depth discussions of public transit is that it's really quite the barometer for overall civic function. The rate of new public transit is also a fine derivative, and as such even more "low latency".

Something I really enjoy at Taiwan is the bike sharing system they've put all around the country. Liking it at a point where I've wrote an essaye about it[1]. It's cheap, everywhere, and built on a really high standard

[1] https://erickhun.com/posts/taiwan-youbike-bike-sharing/

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