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Bitcoin value surges past $30k

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#31

Post by pavlov »

icedchai wrote: post #22
emerged wrote: post #3

I don’t care if it’s a guarantee to be 100k tomorrow, I refuse to profit off crypto speculation. It may seem crazy to people but I like to earn money with effort.

Do you say the same thing about stocks? You can make more money with less effort by investing, whether it's crypto, equities, bonds, real estate... (you can also lose a lot more, obviously.)

Stocks are backed by real companies with real products and cash flows.

With Bitcoin, the only way to make money is to sell it at a higher price to someone else later. It’s a purely speculative asset.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#32

Post by xxbondsxx »

imranq wrote: post #21
pjkundert wrote: post #4

I wonder what will happen the next time we have a prolonged global network outage (ie. days, weeks). The next time we have a major kinetic conflict, for example... Since Bitcoin will "fork" in each network partition, and everything will work ... fine, within each partition -- right up until the moment the network is repaired, and all but one of the "forks" simply disappears. I think most people will be surprised that…

Sorry I’m not quite following. I understand if groups are isolated from each other we will have different forks of Bitcoin running around the world, but why would a fork disappear? Wouldn’t the separate partitions merge into one network again?

The forks don't "disappear", but they get overruled since the consensus has shifted to the majority opinion of the ledger. Thus all of the transactions on a local fork (that doesn't become the majority) are wiped out -- including possibly deposits in exchange for cash.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#33

Post by _trampeltier »

eloff wrote: post #8
emerged wrote: post #3

I don’t care if it’s a guarantee to be 100k tomorrow, I refuse to profit off crypto speculation. It may seem crazy to people but I like to earn money with effort.

I would seriously advise people not to speculate on crypto. The biggest use case is selling it to other speculators. That can't be sustainable. But only wanting to earn money through effort is a ridiculous notion as well. Investing your savings is a good and necessary idea.

On almost all trading platforms, the trading volume is lower than 2017. I think a lot of people just bought coins over the last year, but not really trade, so just the "few coins left" are traded and make the price.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#34

Post by optical »

st1x7 wrote: post #9
dralley wrote: post #6

Is there any conceivable good reason for the value to have tripled in 3 months, or is this a cycle of FOMO hysteria just like last time?

Maybe I'm just not paying as much attention this time around but it seems much quieter than peak 2017.

Because it is early 2017. Everyone seems to get lost in the huge peaks and valleys and miss the slow growth due to supply impacts. Why did it go up in 2017? IMO the halving in july 2016. Same reason it is going up now, it halved in may 2020 and we are just now seeing the impact.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#35

Post by pjkundert »

xiphias2 wrote: post #18
pjkundert wrote: post #4

I wonder what will happen the next time we have a prolonged global network outage (ie. days, weeks). The next time we have a major kinetic conflict, for example... Since Bitcoin will "fork" in each network partition, and everything will work ... fine, within each partition -- right up until the moment the network is repaired, and all but one of the "forks" simply disappears. I think most people will be surprised that…

Last time it happened in Egypt, the government was overthrown and the leader had to resign. With Bitcoin, you have to shoot all the Bitcoin satellites _and_ stop the internet to do what you propose.

Denial of your opponent’s access to the battlefield is “table stakes” in the next war.

I assure you — all terrestrial and major satellite up/downlinks will cease within minutes of the next major conflict starting.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#36

Post by icedchai »

pavlov wrote: post #31
icedchai wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you say the same thing about stocks? You can make more money with less effort by investing, whether it's crypto, equities, bonds, real estate... (you can also lose a lot more, obviously.)

Stocks are backed by real companies with real products and cash flows. With Bitcoin, the only way to make money is to sell it at a higher price to someone else later. It’s a purely speculative asset.

What you say is true only in the most basic sense. If you look at the movement of some stocks, there is clearly a ton of speculation. There are whole stocks (and classes of stocks, like some recent SPACs) that essentially move on almost nothing but speculation. Regardless, he said he liked to "earn his money with effort", so I am interested in learning how far that goes...

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#37

Post by pavlov »

icedchai wrote: post #36
pavlov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stocks are backed by real companies with real products and cash flows. With Bitcoin, the only way to make money is to sell it at a higher price to someone else later. It’s a purely speculative asset.

What you say is true only in the most basic sense. If you look at the movement of some stocks, there is clearly a ton of speculation. There are whole stocks (and classes of stocks, like some recent SPACs) that essentially move on almost nothing but speculation. Regardless, he said he liked to "earn his money with effort", so I am interested in learning how far that goes...

Purely speculative stocks are traditionally called penny stocks, and brokers go out of their way to advice you against investing in them.

The same caveats should apply to Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#38

Post by icedchai »

pavlov wrote: post #37
icedchai wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you say is true only in the most basic sense. If you look at the movement of some stocks, there is clearly a ton of speculation. There are whole stocks (and classes of stocks, like some recent SPACs) that essentially move on almost nothing but speculation. Regardless, he said he liked to "earn his money with effort", so I am interested in learning how far that goes...

Purely speculative stocks are traditionally called penny stocks, and brokers go out of their way to advice you against investing in them. The same caveats should apply to Bitcoin.

My point is that it is not black-and-white. Stocks represent companies with real products and cash flows, but there is also a ton of speculative, bubble like behaviour on top of it. Take a look at a 1 year chart of something like TSLA or NIO and tell me that isn't true.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#39

Post by BenoitP »

pjkundert wrote: post #35
xiphias2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time it happened in Egypt, the government was overthrown and the leader had to resign. With Bitcoin, you have to shoot all the Bitcoin satellites _and_ stop the internet to do what you propose.

Denial of your opponent’s access to the battlefield is “table stakes” in the next war. I assure you — all terrestrial and major satellite up/downlinks will cease within minutes of the next major conflict starting.

Well, in case of a global thermonuclear war I think we'll have bigger problems than some transactions being reversed.

Re: Bitcoin value surges past $30k

#40

Post by jbob2000 »

bhaak wrote: post #20

Price action is boring. I'd rather see usecases for cryptocurrencies linked here, not the same article every time Bitcoin surges above an arbitrary number.

The only use-case for crypto is that it fills in the gaps in demand that the global banking system creates. There are a lot of people who are left out or kicked out of the banking system, but they still need financial services, so the demand remains.

e.g. An IPO is too expensive, so a company pursues an ICO. Or a family in Venezuela needs money so they receive bitcoin. Or college kids wants to buy LSD so he sends the payment with bitcoin. Or a paedophile wants to buy child porn, so he pays with bitcoin. etc.

The second use-case for crypto is as a commodity investment for its first use-case.

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