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Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

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Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#31

Post by mellosouls »

everyone wrote: post #13
SEJeff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can happily set the autopilot speed to above the speed limit. There are a few gotchas and it won’t always let you, but in general, it is fine. I normally set it to 10% higher than the posted speed limit as an example.

You intentionally wish to drive 10% higher than the speed limit.. So, you desire to be in car crash? Also one at faster speeds and therefore exponentially more deadly? Everyone has to use public roads, not just you. You are endangering all other diligent road users with your behavior, not just yourself.

While I don't condone speeding (and acknowledge the relatively greater damage when accidents happen), I think you need to distinguish between that and unsafe driving which are two very different things.

You can be driving below speed limits very unsafely (and above them safely) and the constant focus on speeding, especially via automated mechanisms like cameras at the expense of traffic officers means we risk a much lower standard of driving and much less safe roads.

Note though my concern is not the crackdown on those who flout the law and/or break speed limits; but the misunderstanding of what unsafe driving is (as implied by your comment), and headline anti-speeding measures that are used to reduce costs and increase risk.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#32

Post by DanBC »

jocker12 wrote: post #14
underseacables wrote: post #7

I’m a huge fan of Elon Musk so take this with a grain of salt, but the company has totally misled and overhyped the self driving feature. It’s almost like a wink and a nod, giving people a false perception, and that’s wrong.

Under a new proposal from the UK‘s Law Commission, the “user in charge” of the vehicle would not be prosecuted for careless or dangerous driving, speeding, or breaking red lights when the car was in self-driving mode, the Telegraph reports. The Law Commission instead suggests that responsibility should fall on the developer or manufacturer of the hardware that enables self-driving functions on the vehicle. see https:…

Here's a link to the documents. This is a consultation document.

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lawcom-prod-storage-11jsx...

https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/automated-vehicles/

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#33

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

orange_tee wrote: post #30
phaemon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people keep claiming, but I've yet to see a single example of an actual Tesla owner who was confused about this. The person in this story wasn't confused and didn't even attempt a defense that Tesla had mislead them.

So he and his passenger went to sleep fully knowing that Tesla's driving assist could fail at any moment? You mean, they were both suicidal? Much more plausible is that he is scared to implicate Tesla into this.

Tesla marks all these features as beta on the menu where you activate them, and pops up a long warning text explicitly stating the limitations. I don’t think Tesla could do much more than they already do.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#34

Post by gambiting »

emteycz wrote: post #29
gambiting wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to Tesla's UK page and try to place an order for a brand new Model 3, it uses both "Self-Driving" and "Autopilot" on the same page. How this company hasn't been fined to oblivion yet is beyond me: https://i.postimg.cc/g0ndzbmL/image.png

The word 'autopilot' never meant reacting to anything happening around the vehicle, much less intelligently. Not a single autopilot can do more than keep the vehicle going in the direction you set (using a knob). Autonomous features are not called autopilot anywhere, ever. 'Full self driving capability' is a hardware capability, not a feature that you can turn on - it is there so you don't need to replace the hardwar…

Imagine I am a John Smith that doesn't know anything about Tesla and how the tech works. I want to buy their car because maybe I like the idea of an electric car and they seem to be well reviewed. I go through the configurator, then tick the box next to the option called "Full Self-Driving capability".

In your opinion, in front of the court of law, would you consider that John Smith has purchased a car that has something called "Full Self-Driving Capability", or not? In front of the same court of law - would you consider that Tesla advertises such a thing when presenting their cars?

>>Autonomous features are not called autopilot anywhere, ever.

You are absolutely correct, other car companies call this what it is - (adaptive) cruise control. Not autopilot.

>>'Full self driving capability' is a capability, not a feature that you can turn on

Well, but the website itself says that at the moment, as-is(not in the future!) the car will be able to autonomously drive from on-ramp to an off-ramp on the motorway - so.....that sounds like a feature to me? It even has a button for it! What is it about turning it on or off?

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#35

Post by jessaustin »

gambiting wrote: post #28
anonu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This [1] was the famous 2016 crash where a Tesla broad-sided a basically stationary semi-truck. Are you suggesting Tesla hasn't solved this type of problem yet? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-crash/tesla-driver-...

Yes, of course Tesla hasn't solved it yet, because no one has, and in fact it probably isn't possible to solve without some magic tech that doesn't exist yet - it might be possible to fix with LIDAR, but obviously Tesla doesn't have it. All of these systems have to ignore stationary objects ahead of them, or the car would be emergency braking in too many daily situations to be usable. Simple case, at 150km/h you are…

Aren't there fully self-driving vehicles undergoing testing on normal city streets with stoplights? We could say that's a different mode than high-speed highway driving, but there are a number of locations where those modes blend into each other. Are the experimenters extra careful to avoid those locations? How long before the tech exists to address this issue?

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#36

Post by iso1210 »

emteycz wrote: post #29
gambiting wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to Tesla's UK page and try to place an order for a brand new Model 3, it uses both "Self-Driving" and "Autopilot" on the same page. How this company hasn't been fined to oblivion yet is beyond me: https://i.postimg.cc/g0ndzbmL/image.png

The word 'autopilot' never meant reacting to anything happening around the vehicle, much less intelligently. Not a single autopilot can do more than keep the vehicle going in the direction you set (using a knob). Autonomous features are not called autopilot anywhere, ever. 'Full self driving capability' is a hardware capability, not a feature that you can turn on - it is there so you don't need to replace the hardwar…

Full Self Driving Capability suggests that the car has Full Capability to drive itself.

That it does so as safely and legally as a human driver is implied by the word "full"

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#37

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

gambiting wrote: post #19
supernova87a wrote: post #6

"Witnesses claim the man behind the wheel and his passenger were asleep with their seats fully reclined, as their Tesla travelled up to 150 km/h on the freeway near Ponoka..." Given this and the man's other past incidents, the Tesla was only a minor contributing factor in the guy's global stupidity and danger that he inflicts on the world daily? Edit: Btw, what would be the end accident scenario here? Presuming that…

"Presuming that the car wouldn't hit any other car on the road" - it absolutely would though. The tech is good enough to avoid hitting another car that slows down in front of you, but if someone was broken down(and fully stopped) in your lane, the car will hit them at full speed. It might start breaking just before impact, but not fast enough to slow you down from 150km/h. No self driving or adaptive cruise tech can…

My Tesla has regularly come to a full stop from freeway speeds in response to traffic ahead. This may not be 100% reliable, but it’s not true that “the system is trained to ignore stationary objects”.

It also beeps when it thinks I’m going to hit a stopped car and other things that demonstrate that this claim is false.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#38

Post by emteycz »

iso1210 wrote: post #36
emteycz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word 'autopilot' never meant reacting to anything happening around the vehicle, much less intelligently. Not a single autopilot can do more than keep the vehicle going in the direction you set (using a knob). Autonomous features are not called autopilot anywhere, ever. 'Full self driving capability' is a hardware capability, not a feature that you can turn on - it is there so you don't need to replace the hardwar…

Full Self Driving Capability suggests that the car has Full Capability to drive it self . That it does so as safely and legally as a human driver is implied by the word "full"

No, you should read that website, and perhaps try to buy a Tesla and see the materials. It says clearly that it's the hardware and that the software is not there yet.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#39

Post by robocat »

anonymousiam wrote: post #26
gz5 wrote: post #20

x (40?) years from now: 12-car accident triggered by manual mode defense attorneys stated a poor decision due to fatigue, while prosecutors provided evidence that the driver had taken a 25-minute power nap, woke up and performed well in a class she was taking, and then proceeded to override the autonomous vehicle system in a manner which showed specific and malicious intent to cause the accident.

I have told my kids many times that I expect piloted cars to be a rarity in the future. Once reliable self-driving cars are common, the difficulty in obtaining a driver license will likely increase.

It’s entirely possible that self-driving cars could be realistic about the time we all get flying cars.

Re: Man accused of dangerous driving for sleeping in self-driving, speeding Tesla

#40

Post by wayeq »

speedgoose wrote: post #10

One solution is to put a camera inside to monitor the driver behaviour. Mazda is already selling cars with this technology.

Tesla makes you apply force to the steering wheel occasionally, but there are hacks that to try to circumvent it.
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