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Telegram's getting ads

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Re: Telegram's getting ads

#31

Post by rglullis »

bilal4hmed wrote: post #14
rglullis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a counter-argument, or plain pontification? OP clearly states that there is a fundamental issue with any centralized solution (i.e, the moment that it becomes too big, it will succumb to the interests of its owners) and you respond by saying "well, Signal is easier for the general audience"? It might be easier, so what ? Apple's products are supposedly more privacy-oriented than the Facebook's/Google's. So wh…

Its not a lazy cop out. There is a reason why Telegram, WhatsApp, iMessage have more users - they are simple to use for an audience that is not tech savvy. Matrix has a long way to go before getting people to join is "easy". Theyve done great work over this year to get that done, but its far from perfect. Fight the good fight but dont forget what makes an app attract users. Even now on matrix, when you sign up, matri…

I've got a good part of my family who is not tech savvy on matrix (not their server, but actual accounts on communick.com homeserver), nothing that a 10 minute walk-through didn't solve.

It on us the tech savvy to identify these issues, educate and help them overcome them, and ideally contribute for these issues to be solved in the first place. This gives us progress and freedom. Saying "matrix is hard/incomplete, let's just stick in the golden cage" gives us convenience, but no progress.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#32

Post by asutekku »

rglullis wrote: post #31
bilal4hmed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a lazy cop out. There is a reason why Telegram, WhatsApp, iMessage have more users - they are simple to use for an audience that is not tech savvy. Matrix has a long way to go before getting people to join is "easy". Theyve done great work over this year to get that done, but its far from perfect. Fight the good fight but dont forget what makes an app attract users. Even now on matrix, when you sign up, matri…

I've got a good part of my family who is not tech savvy on matrix (not their server, but actual accounts on communick.com homeserver), nothing that a 10 minute walk-through didn't solve. It on us the tech savvy to identify these issues, educate and help them overcome them, and ideally contribute for these issues to be solved in the first place. This gives us progress and freedom. Saying "matrix is hard/incomplete, le…

10 min walkthrough/registration process versus a <1 min registration. Think whatever of it but people appreciate convenience over everything.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#33

Post by jlelse »

hertzrat wrote: post #30
otachack wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal is great and I believe it does have better crypto. But the UI is severely lacking along with feature set. Telegram feels like it's adding something new every few months, though the documentation over the features is poor since it's mostly through announcements. It's also a lot more customizable. I ultimately settled on Telegram because it was a good balance of feature-rich and crypto (when you use it) That bei…

I never found signal lacking in any way, except that occasionally push notifications don’t get through. When people say signal is lacking in features, what do they mean? Simplicity is appealing too

They (at least it's me) are possibly meaning the excellent multi-device use. I can easilly use Telegram on like 10 different devices, all chats are in sync.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#34

Post by rglullis »

asutekku wrote: post #32
rglullis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a good part of my family who is not tech savvy on matrix (not their server, but actual accounts on communick.com homeserver), nothing that a 10 minute walk-through didn't solve. It on us the tech savvy to identify these issues, educate and help them overcome them, and ideally contribute for these issues to be solved in the first place. This gives us progress and freedom. Saying "matrix is hard/incomplete, le…

10 min walkthrough/registration process versus a <1 min registration. Think whatever of it but people appreciate convenience over everything.

"Look, mom/dad/wife/brother/friends, I know that WhatsApp is easier and everyone else is using it and it you already know it and it is super convenient. But I don't want to use it anymore for a bunch of different reasons. If you want to talk to me, I can help you get set up on this app and we can talk. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass, but I am willing to help you with whatever issue you have. Just please don't ask me to sacrifice my freedom for your convenience."

100% conversion rate. Stop with excuses and Just. Ask. Them. In fact even if I have no paying customers at all for communick I wouldn't still shut it down just so my friends and family can continue using it.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#35

Post by tomcam »

balozi wrote: post #27
grishka wrote: post #20

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either. Many popular Telegram ch…

Come on, ALL UX is ruined by addition of ads. I bet there is not a single user of any app anywhere ever that can claim that their UX was bettered by ads. Also, users WILL be have to manipulated and/or tracked for the purpose of monetization via ads. By now everyone is well acquainted with these monetization techniques, so no point in pretending otherwise.

Disagree. I like musical instruments. I don’t mind ads for guitar companies. I like embedded systems. I love seeing ads for new esp32 variants or low cost e-ink screens. Also I never object to women’s swimsuit ads. Just sayin’.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#36

Post by onetimemanytime »

grishka wrote: post #20

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either. Many popular Telegram ch…

>>As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads

The Google founders were pretty idealistic when they started too and no doubt many swore by their intentions.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#37

Post by leppr »

grishka wrote: post #20

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either. Many popular Telegram ch…

> I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads [...]. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users.

If there's one thing Telegram isn't good at, it's having a UX that respect its users. If that was the case, it would be possible to opt out of notifications from group chats and still receive notifications for private chats, but it's not. This forces one to juggle with multiple accounts if they want to both join public groups and also use it for regular chats.

They already put engagement over respect for their users, I don't have much confidence they won't ruin it even more with ads.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#38

Post by grishka »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #36
grishka wrote: post #20

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either. Many popular Telegram ch…

>> As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads The Google founders were pretty idealistic when they started too and no doubt many swore by their intentions.

Google has investors though. Telegram is wholly owned by Durov.

I've also seen him run monetization at VK. Basically: there was one developer responsible for ads, and he sat in another office together with financial staff because of the different values.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#39

Post by grishka »

leppr wrote: post #37
grishka wrote: post #20

As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads, and even more unlikely that users will be manipulated and/or tracked in any way. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. He knows what "we're earning enough to cover our expenses" means. The company is privately owned so no one will be pushing him into anything either. Many popular Telegram ch…

> I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads [...]. If there's one thing he does well it's respecting his users. If there's one thing Telegram isn't good at, it's having a UX that respect its users. If that was the case, it would be possible to opt out of notifications from group chats and still receive notifications for private chats, but it's not. This forces one to juggle with multiple accou…

> If that was the case, it would be possible to opt out of notifications from group chats and still receive notifications for private chats, but it's not.

Uh, it's possible, and has always been? In the Android client at least, there's a group of big honking toggles under "notifications and sounds" that do just that.

Re: Telegram's getting ads

#40

Post by onetimemanytime »

grishka wrote: post #38
onetimemanytime wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> As someone who knew Durov personally, I'd say that it's very unlikely that the UX will be ruined by ads The Google founders were pretty idealistic when they started too and no doubt many swore by their intentions.

Google has investors though. Telegram is wholly owned by Durov. I've also seen him run monetization at VK. Basically: there was one developer responsible for ads, and he sat in another office together with financial staff because of the different values.

Now he doesn't.
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