Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 40 posts

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#31

Post by ThePadawan »

hwatkins wrote: post #28
ThePadawan wrote: post #26

You know an interview goes both ways, right? As the interviewer, if a candidate goes on and on about something irrelevant, note that, interrupt them, and move on. You're recognizing that these candidates are in a difficult situation, but you're not taking any steps yourself to support them.

As an interviewer you are also trying to figure out how the person will fit into the team, there are literally people that you can't get a word in. Learn how to pause and get feedback to see if you are on track.

I know. That's why I recommended that the interviewer notes that fact, but presses on.

If OPs hypothesis is correct that their rambling is a symptom of "just-got-laid-off-panic", then letting the candidate discredit herself due to that temporary condition is unhelpful for everyone.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#32

Post by ironmagma »

AntiImperialist wrote: post #30
Shorel wrote: post #16

It is your job to hire the best candidate, hire the most qualified, not the best at selling himself. Remember the Dunning–Kruger effect. We are surrounded by confident and wrong people.

In practice, candidates who are best at selling themselves are also great at selling ideas to coworkers and maybe even clients. Confident and wrong people are the ones who will try their ideas out and get it right eventually. Those who are not confident will keep passive learning and planning and get stuck in self-doubt, and hate others for succeeding by just doing things "wrongly". I think there's a meta DK effect i…

Nobody wins with the Dunning Kruger effect, that is the beauty of it. If you rate yourself modestly, maybe you’re actually modest or maybe you’re advanced, there’s no way to know. If you rate yourself highly, you’re not very good at all. And if you rate yourself low, you’re probably being accurate.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#33

Post by austincheney »

st1x7 wrote: post #2

It's difficult to not act desperate when you actually are in a somewhat desperate situation (for example it's x weeks/months until you won't be able to pay your bills).

True, but it’s still irrelevant to attaining a new job. Ultimately it’s a conversation about adding value and distractions that detract from value are a net negative on both sides of the table.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#34

Post by austincheney »

Shorel wrote: post #16

It is your job to hire the best candidate, hire the most qualified, not the best at selling himself. Remember the Dunning–Kruger effect. We are surrounded by confident and wrong people.

> It is your job to hire the best candidate, hire the most qualified, not the best at selling himself.

What’s the practical difference? There isn’t an objective measure of competence in software. An interviewer has to make a decision on potential performance from very little information. Strong communications skills are a huge benefit to a candidate, which includes selling ones self. It is up to the interviewer to direct the conversation and determine if the candidate’s commentary is bullshit.

DK isn’t confidence, but more specifically is confidence contrary to performance.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#35

Post by st1x7 »

austincheney wrote: post #33
st1x7 wrote: post #2

It's difficult to not act desperate when you actually are in a somewhat desperate situation (for example it's x weeks/months until you won't be able to pay your bills).

True, but it’s still irrelevant to attaining a new job. Ultimately it’s a conversation about adding value and distractions that detract from value are a net negative on both sides of the table.

It's more than just the value conversation. The best interviewees are relaxed and act like they have other good employment options (and they often do). If you've been laid off and don't know how to make next month's rent, acting like you have better options is both an act and a gamble on your part. It's understandably difficult to pull off.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#36

Post by austincheney »

st1x7 wrote: post #35
austincheney wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it’s still irrelevant to attaining a new job. Ultimately it’s a conversation about adding value and distractions that detract from value are a net negative on both sides of the table.

It's more than just the value conversation. The best interviewees are relaxed and act like they have other good employment options (and they often do). If you've been laid off and don't know how to make next month's rent, acting like you have better options is both an act and a gamble on your part. It's understandably difficult to pull off.

Relaxed doesn’t mean hopelessly stringing along a bunch of equivocation nonsense fishing for sympathy. I understand that temporary financial pressures are stressful but that isn’t a concern of the hiring company. Attempts to make it a concern are distractions that end in failure. As unfair as this sounds it looks like weakness.

Instead, focus. Calm down. Think about writing software and building cool products. Redirect your energy into enthusiasm and try to have a conversation about adding value to your potential future employer.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#37

Post by rc-1140 »

I would chip in to the OPs feedback by repeating some advice that's somewhat commonplace but is very practical: for anyone in the shoes the OP has described, practice your speech, especially if you haven't found yourself in this situation before. Instead of feeling like you have to defend yourself, come up with a short spiel about your layoff situation that explains why you're back on the market.

Example: [John/Jane Smith] was a software engineer at Big Bill's Railroad working on a content management system. When Covid-19 hit, people suddenly stopped riding the trains on Bill's railroad, and Bill had no other recourse but to reduce his workforce: less ridership, less revenue. Unfortunately, [John/Jane Smith] was part of this RIF and [John/Jane Smith is] now back on the market.

If it comes up in a HR screen, substitute [John/Jane Smith] with the appropriate "I" during conversation and it's a Covid-themed template that everyone will get. The above is a crude example, but you should try to turn your experiences into paragraphs. Not everyone has the "leisure" of being in an impacted industry and it's more difficult to do if you've been fired rather than laid off, but it's important to package yourself for various audiences. Put your experiences into singular paragraphs, trim out all the cruft and fat, and you have good blurbs about yourself that are quick and informative.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#38

Post by rufus_foreman »

mamon wrote: post #5
dave_sid wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an interviewer I wouldn’t look on that badly either. The job market nosedived. Simple as that so it’s not inconceivable that many talented people have been out of work for a long time.

Companies don't fire talented people. They fire those, who, during the good times were just barely adequate for the job they did, and in the bad times they became liability.

I don't know about this crisis, but in the last crisis, 2008 or whatever, they fired everyone.

Where I worked, 200 people working on two products at a start up became 100 people working on 1 product at a startup all in the course of a single morning, and the people working on the product that got the axe were just as smart as the people working on the product that didn't.

Some of them didn't work for years - all smart capable developers, but no one was hiring. It's sort of surprising that didn't happen this year, but the next crisis is always right around the corner.

It's all fun and games until it happens to you.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#39

Post by nexus2045 »

st1x7 wrote: post #2

It's difficult to not act desperate when you actually are in a somewhat desperate situation (for example it's x weeks/months until you won't be able to pay your bills).

I had the same problem when it came to “getting a girlfriend” (quoted because it might sound too trivial compared to this current issue, and also because I wanted one for the wrong reasons, which was to seem “normal” to others and stop being “forever alone”).

I was told I was acting too desperate and lacked confidence, to which I countered... how can I not act desperate when I’ve been lonely for so long? (Of course the answer to that is to enjoy being alone/single first, but I was getting huge FOMO and envy during college-age years when everyone else seemed to be in a relationship and I wasn’t). In hindsight, breaking out of a negative feedback loop requires a lot of conscious effort, or else reality becomes a nonstop fulfilling prophecy.

Re: If you've been laid off, please avoid this mistake in interviews

#40

Post by Trias11 »

I been there. Laid off. Mortgage. Desperate. Accepted low ball arrogant offer from small startup company. That got me into more calm mood of not being that desperate. Got a call from another company offering me 3x.

Shown middle finger to startup and left in 2 days to way more exciting career.

Post reply on HN