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Free internet for all not such a bad idea

theguardian.com

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Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#31

Post by hervature »

dao- wrote: post #17
ozim wrote: post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

> It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow It also just enables people to communicate and access information. Kinda weird that we need to make a business pitch to show that something is essential. Then again, we're living under capitalism.

How is capitalism part of this conversation? Socialism also has to debate the merits of making something essential. It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home. As much as some people would have liked it.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#32

Post by jl6 »

keiferski wrote: post #27

This approach (legislation) to resource distribution is often the wrong one. It’s better to simply make the item in question become a commodity, so much so that it’s universally accessible to even the poorest members of society. Think of something like paper. Originally it was exceptionally expensive and only available to the wealthy or particular tradesmen. Scraps of already-used paper were reused because the materi…

It’s hard to commodify resolution of the last-mile issues which create a large portion of the cost of providing universal Internet access. E.g. there’s no technology for mass-producing local roadworks.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#34

Post by tpush »

alperakgun wrote: post #20
ozim wrote: post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

In Germany just because you have a TV-enabled deviced, you pay a fee to GEZ to finance public broadcasters I suppose. I'm not sure if they will consider "free internet" as another way to access TV and charge you.

> In Germany just because you have a TV-enabled deviced, you pay a fee to GEZ to finance public broadcasters I suppose.

These days you have to pay no matter what, even if you have no device that can receive broadcasts.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#35

Post by throwaway2245 »

alperakgun wrote: post #20
ozim wrote: post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

In Germany just because you have a TV-enabled deviced, you pay a fee to GEZ to finance public broadcasters I suppose. I'm not sure if they will consider "free internet" as another way to access TV and charge you.

"Since 2013, every private household in Germany has been required to pay these fees, regardless of whether the household actually has the capability to receive the broadcasts themselves."

So this is a universal tax anyway, whether or not you have a TV-enabled device.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#36

Post by bonoboTP »

alperakgun wrote: post #20
ozim wrote: post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

In Germany just because you have a TV-enabled deviced, you pay a fee to GEZ to finance public broadcasters I suppose. I'm not sure if they will consider "free internet" as another way to access TV and charge you.

They already charge you anyway. They just assume you have an Internet or TV/radio enabled device. Again, having internet is enough as they say you may watch the public media on the broadcaster's website...

Some years ago they would send people to sniff around your home to find a media device, like taking photos of your car radio in front of your home to prove you can access public media. But if you let them in your home, they'd write a report of you having a TV etc.

But as I said this isn't happening any more, they just assume every household has a device capable of accessing public media so everyone must pay.

There was a big movement against this but ultimately the Constitutional Court decided all this is A-OK.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#37

Post by throwaway2245 »

keiferski wrote: post #27

This approach (legislation) to resource distribution is often the wrong one. It’s better to simply make the item in question become a commodity, so much so that it’s universally accessible to even the poorest members of society. Think of something like paper. Originally it was exceptionally expensive and only available to the wealthy or particular tradesmen. Scraps of already-used paper were reused because the materi…

Utilities including household internet are natural monopolies. Early paper isn't a natural monopoly.

As such, the arguments for legislation is about as different as they can get. Paper as an industry will likely have a healthy competitive market without significant intervention; household internet not likely.

Nobody is proposing to legislate that paper should be provided free to everyone, it's not at all comparable.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#39

Post by nix23 »

hervature wrote: post #31
dao- wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow It also just enables people to communicate and access information. Kinda weird that we need to make a business pitch to show that something is essential. Then again, we're living under capitalism.

How is capitalism part of this conversation? Socialism also has to debate the merits of making something essential. It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home. As much as some people would have liked it.

>It’s not like the USSR had sparkling water running to every home

The USSR was NOT Socialism nor was it Communism, that was just a motto to establish absolute power lead from a small elite circle (the withered core of the communist party). It's kind of the opposite of communism and especially socialism.

BTW it would have been extremely interesting if Israel went that route (maybe the first real, and humane communist state?)

BTW2 Sparkling water in russia? Maybe Woda but then without sparkles.

Re: Free internet for all not such a bad idea

#40

Post by oarsinsync »

alexgmcm wrote: post #25
ozim wrote: post #12

Well I consider internet basic infrastructure like roads or water pipes. It enables business of all kind of sorts to grow and we are well past phase where internet is some kind of "weird academical geeky thing". Well maybe it is not basic human right, just like having access to a road is not but maybe we should have more internet infra paid with taxes.

Yeah, it really irritates me when renting or purchasing a house/apartment that they often won't say (sometimes don't even know) if it has fibre coverage or not. I lived in a flat that only had ADSL a few years ago and I never intend on going back to that.

Don’t know what it’s like where you live, but in this side of the world, once I have the address of the flat (which I can get before I even view), I can lookup what broadband options are available to me. Any property that only has ADSL at best doesn’t get a viewing.

Even FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) ends up at the bottom of the short list. FTTP is pretty vital now for me, and very much features as one of the deciding factors.

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