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The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

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Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#31
post #5

Who recalls the provenance of this old legend about the fellow who challenged his pal to decode a certain floppy? It was a bog-standard DOS boot disk (IIRC) that he could put in his machine and boot normally. But his pal put it in his computer and... nothing doing, no boot. Analysis of the floppy availed not. The challenge went unmet. What did our hero do to make the floppy? .esrever ni nups evird eht os ytiralop eti…

This reminds me of a less interesting story:

My father bought a 386 for his work to replace a 286 which only had a 5.25 floppy drive. The 386 had both a 3.5 and 5.25 floppy drive so he quickly switched to the more sturdy 3.5 disks and moved a lot of work to the 3.5's.

Everything was working great until he got a second similarly spec'd 386. For some reason the machines couldn't read each others 3.5" disks. So he called his programmer friend who stopped by and did some testing. Both machines could format/read/write their respective disks no problem. So he formats and writes a test file to a disk from each machine and takes them home with him.

My father gets a call from him the next day: "call the vendor and have them give you a new 3.5 drive in the original machine" Turns out the heads in the original machines 3.5 drive were slightly misaligned mechanically to the tracks. This caused the disk to be perfectly workable in the bad drive but fail to read in any other machine.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#32
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

The 'k' spelling is American. Look at the ports on the BBC and you'll find British spellings of 'analogue', 'disc'.

https://oldcomputers.net/bbc-micro.html

The User manual contains more language. For example, 'program' for computer program (vs 'programme' which would be used for TV)

http://bbc.nvg.org/doc/BBCUserGuide-1.00.pdf

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#33
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

This is so off topic and/but (currently) still the top comment.

Since when would anyone remember how to properly write something, when the representation he has is the phonetics in his head?

Nobody thinks "It's disk, because it comes from diskette."

Why do people argue as if anyone would think like that? - Though I don't doubt that it's the origin. Are we supposed to know the origin of (every)thing(s)? - We mostly don't.

To then write it "disc" makes sense, except you are from Germany.

To then pseudo-intellectually pretend that people know whatever and what not and don't rather go by guts feel (what it sounds like) is blatantly dishonest.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#36
post #14

Very clever and great article! But it sounds pretty easy to write a cracker for it: Just rewrite the machine code to jump over the check. Or did I miss anything? Edit: Guess it depends on the details and amount of "obfuscation" that he mentions.

Copying one of my old comments from slashdot... it sounds similar to Sierra's "cpc.com". While I was reading the article I wondered if the equivalent of this process for the 6502 (BRK/COP interrupt table?) would work.

Back in the 1980s Sierra On-Line used to copy protect their adventure games with a copy protection system which involved strangely formatted sectors on the original disk which were impossible to duplicate exactly using standard PC hardware.

The loader "sierra.com" used to call a copy-protection program "cpc.com" which loaded data from the disk to decrypt the main program and run it. cpc.com had some of the most obscure, twisty, awful code ever written to prevent debugging and it constantly used different methods to thwart stepping through the program using INT 3 (these were the days before Soft-Ice).

But the solution (or "crack") was just dead simple. Just fire up debug, step to the beginning of cpc.com, and copy the vector from INT 3 into the INT 13 vector - then cpc.com stops right at the point where the data from the disk is being loaded, so it can be copied.

Despite all the incredibly complex code, cpc.com had to read the data off the disk so there was no way the Sierra programmers could thwart this method.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#37
post #14

Very clever and great article! But it sounds pretty easy to write a cracker for it: Just rewrite the machine code to jump over the check. Or did I miss anything? Edit: Guess it depends on the details and amount of "obfuscation" that he mentions.

>Very clever and great article! But it sounds pretty easy to write a cracker for it: Just rewrite the machine code to jump over the check. Or did I miss anything?

Nope, you did not miss anything. Many of these old DOS game floppy protections could be bypassed by a single byte change to the exe (or com, depending on the game) file. The time consuming part was working out exactly which byte to change.

Source: I cracked most of my DOS games back in the day, using nothing more than DOS's supplied 'debug' tool, so I did not have to go find, and insert, the floppy in order to play the game. On many of them, changing a single JC to JNC or a single JE to JZ (or the reverse) was all it took to bypass the copy protection. A few others took a few more bytes worth of patching, one had to convert a conditional into an unconditional branch or otherwise nop out a small code segment. The one that required the most effort was MicroProse's Apache helicopter simulator. They used the "weak sector trick" but the contents of the "weak sector" was also a small bit of the overall game code. So for that one I created a loader that hooked the disk interrupt and when it detected the weak sector read, it returned the sector data and the proper "disk read error" state for the rest of the game to work with.

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#38
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

This is so off topic and/but (currently) still the top comment. Since when would anyone remember how to properly write something, when the representation he has is the phonetics in his head? Nobody thinks "It's disk, because it comes from diskette." Why do people argue as if anyone would think like that? - Though I don't doubt that it's the origin. Are we supposed to know the origin of (every)thing(s)? - We mostly do…

20 posts in two years and you use 21 to complain this is still off topic post is still #1. Drop a parent level post if you have something better to discuss, don't reply on this post saying this doesn't meet your standards

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#39
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

This is so off topic and/but (currently) still the top comment. Since when would anyone remember how to properly write something, when the representation he has is the phonetics in his head? Nobody thinks "It's disk, because it comes from diskette." Why do people argue as if anyone would think like that? - Though I don't doubt that it's the origin. Are we supposed to know the origin of (every)thing(s)? - We mostly do…

> Nobody thinks "It's disk, because it comes from diskette."

uh ? that's pretty much how I think all the time when writing words for which I'm not sure of the spelling

Re: The cleverest floppy disc protection ever? Western Security Ltd

#40
post #18

Slightly off-topic, but since when were floppies referred to as "disc", as opposed to "disk"? I thought it was from Diskette? Is it a language / region thing? Optical discs were "disc", but at least growing up in the UK in the 80s/90s with DOS/Windows, I'm pretty certain I remember them always being "disk" for floppies? Am I misremembering?

I remember it the same way. But then if floppies are diskettes, what's the non-'ette' disk referring to? DASD Direct-access storage device[0] Disk Pack[1] perhaps? Answer seems to be the 8" floppy disk[2] which only IBM called "Diskette-1" and 5-1/4" ones called mini-diskettes, floppy diskettes, etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-access_storage_device [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_pack [2] https:/…

So you think diskette was derived from disk, where disk refers to “8-inch floppy disk introduced by IBM under the name of diskette”?

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_450...

I’d say IBM called floppy disks diskettes by opposition to hard disks, which were huge at that time:

https://www.computerhistory.org/storageengine/winchester-pio...

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