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George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

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Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#31
Like most writing about 1984, this piece assumes Smith is a reliable narrator.

Would you trust someone who makes the kind of decisions Smith makes? Or advocates some of the courses of action he suggests to O'Brien? Are there more likely explanations for everything in the first two sections than Smith's narrative?

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#32
post #7

Nineteen Eighty-Four, and most of Orwell's other works (including his essays) are freely available at: https://orwell.ru/ Edited to add direct link to the appendix to Nineteen Eighty-Four, as referenced at the end of the article: https://orwell.ru/library/novels/1984/english/en_app

Thank you for this, this is a wonderful resource! I found the link to download an ASCII version of 1984 by reading the readme.txt file, the anchor link seemed broken. Hope this helps another seeker: https://orwell.ru/Download/1984/e84_asc.zip One of the cool things I think about 1984 that occurred to me while re-reading the appendix now as suggested by the article is that in order for Orwell to say something very new…

The whole Smith story is just fast-forward for what Orwell wanted to say, which is all contained in Goldstein.

Examine the world of 1984 from Goldstein on out, and it's an excellent example of what might happen if one took Plato's Republic[0] and attempted to practically implement it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

[0] I'm not sure if the Republic referents are direct, or indirect due to Orwell's second rate boarding school having stanned the greeks.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear what your position is, but what does it say about one, in one can only see the tyranny in a book but not be able to see it in real life?

That it's not there or at least looks radically different?

Well, the part about Airstrip One having always been part of Oceania is due to hit at the end of the year... (although I guess we still don't know exactly how, yet)

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this, this is a wonderful resource! I found the link to download an ASCII version of 1984 by reading the readme.txt file, the anchor link seemed broken. Hope this helps another seeker: https://orwell.ru/Download/1984/e84_asc.zip One of the cool things I think about 1984 that occurred to me while re-reading the appendix now as suggested by the article is that in order for Orwell to say something very new…

And by writing the appendix, he re-enabled that time line since everyone was assured of the inevitable fall of English socialism...

Hahaha!

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#36
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he was writing about the dystopian present he was already aware of Correct. After signing up with the left-wing forces in the Spanish Civil War, and getting betrayed by the Stalinists, he was one of the left-wing British writers who could see what Stalinism was and wrote about it. The whole "memory hole" business is a reference to the removal of Trotsky from photographs, for example. This has nothing to do with ant…

If Big Brother hadn't told you about Covid, would you even know?

After spending ten days in an ICU (with happy hypoxia[1]), and seeing it hospitalise a member of my family for about a month, leave one almost bedridden for days and with a metallic taste in the mouth for weeks, and two others with cough/fatigue/completely no sense of taste, I'd've probably suspected something was up. Could I rule known diseases? Maybe not, but it'd have to have hit us usually hard and with an unusual set of symptoms.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/happy-hypoxia-...

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#37
post #7

Nineteen Eighty-Four, and most of Orwell's other works (including his essays) are freely available at: https://orwell.ru/ Edited to add direct link to the appendix to Nineteen Eighty-Four, as referenced at the end of the article: https://orwell.ru/library/novels/1984/english/en_app

Newspeak didn't occur in a vacuum. I find it more likely Orwell was spoofing Wells and Basic English and all of the post-1918 utopian attempts at "simplifying language" or auxlangs, than that he would be pretending to any originality.

It's not newspeak that causes crimestop. It's that "quiet desperation is the english way", it's the middle class attitudes of the title of "Keep the Aspidistra Flying", etc. that cause crimestop. Orwell was aware of crimestop from his own experiences, and he was aware that he lived in a world with, admittedly, bureaucratese, but without newspeak.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this, this is a wonderful resource! I found the link to download an ASCII version of 1984 by reading the readme.txt file, the anchor link seemed broken. Hope this helps another seeker: https://orwell.ru/Download/1984/e84_asc.zip One of the cool things I think about 1984 that occurred to me while re-reading the appendix now as suggested by the article is that in order for Orwell to say something very new…

The whole Smith story is just fast-forward for what Orwell wanted to say, which is all contained in Goldstein. Examine the world of 1984 from Goldstein on out, and it's an excellent example of what might happen if one took Plato's Republic[0] and attempted to practically implement it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [0] I'm not sure if the…

I like your take. My take, is that Orwell is actually a closet totalitarian, and was singing the praises of such, albeit covertly and in the guise which he knew the public could fawn about and accept. I imagine Orwell smoking his pipe and chuckling to himself, "...and they thought it was against totalitarianism, that's why they swallowed it whole!" After all, the Party is really the victor and hero of the novel. The hopeful appendix could itself be a historical revision of a future "more perfect" incarnation of the Party. I think the 2-minutes hate against Goldstein, is the same 2-minutes hate against "Totalitarian States" that Orwell cynically evokes from a public he knew was ready to go rabid on this thing, against which, I think he believed, resistance was futile. I think he saw himself as greasing the wheels of that. So he's mocking his audience's gullibility while proving his point that totalitarianism is the only thing that can rule them, and selling them such via the backchannel of this novel everyone believes to be against that. I think, in this lens, Orwell is as the biggest political-social thinker of last 200 years, and he carried it off without being recognized as what he was doing, the ultimate power play, which makes it all the more impressive. I really shouldn't write this here, people will probably go crazy. But it's nice to see a fellow differentthinker, so I braved it. A final thought is that there's this concept call dramatic catharsis, in comedy, where the mockery of something is commonly seen as a way to remove its power, but in actuality simply provides a useless outlet for people's frustrations and further acclimates them to it. So, Italian plays mocking the state were how the people coped with it, but the state rolled on, better them cope than revolt. In that lens, 1984 is sort of a pre-catharsis that greases the wheels for the entrance of totalitarianism, by convincing everyone, as another commenter adroitly noted, "of the inevitable demise of English socialism". So Orwell was faking the death of totalitarianism in the mass consciousness, to provide cover for the introduction of totalitarianism. Sort of like that scene in the Dark Knight, where somebody brings the "body of the Joker" to Gambol's hideout, where the Joker promptly comes back to life and takes over.

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#39
post #14

Great to hear that science (neuroscience) here is catching up with Orwell. It is a great book, and Orwell was spot on with so much of what he wrote. How did he do it? I think I know. I don't think Orwell (Erik Blair) was writing a book about a dystopian future. No. I think he was writing about the dystopian present he was already aware of, and then projecting that a little into the future. From personal experience wi…

> It is a great book, and Orwell was spot on with so much of what he wrote. How did he do it? Not to diminish Orwell's prescience in any way, but Yevgeny Zamyatin's novel We precedes Orwell's work by almost 30 years. It contains all the same themes, and without a shadow of a doubt, had a massive influence on Orwell's work.

Zamyatin’s novel is being made into a movie for next year: https://www.youtube.com/embed/BVLvQcO7JGk

Re: George Orwell’s 1984 through a neuroscience lens

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole Smith story is just fast-forward for what Orwell wanted to say, which is all contained in Goldstein. Examine the world of 1984 from Goldstein on out, and it's an excellent example of what might happen if one took Plato's Republic[0] and attempted to practically implement it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24069572 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [0] I'm not sure if the…

I like your take. My take, is that Orwell is actually a closet totalitarian, and was singing the praises of such, albeit covertly and in the guise which he knew the public could fawn about and accept. I imagine Orwell smoking his pipe and chuckling to himself, "...and they thought it was against totalitarianism, that's why they swallowed it whole!" After all, the Party is really the victor and hero of the novel. The…

Having read other Orwell works, in which he appears pretty pinko, I'm not sure about your take, but am happy to discuss its motivations.

Certainly I believe that he could chuckle over Animal Farm being eagerly taken up and sold as an anti-communist, rather than an anti-dog-and-pig, book.

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