Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

codingsans.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 60 posts

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#31

Post by DigitalBison »

username90 wrote: post #26
hammock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager The first thing that comes to mind is you wouldn't want to tell your skip level manager anything that you wouldn't (or haven't already) told your direct manager. That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate.

> That's going outside the chain of command and creates political and organizational issues that no one will appreciate. I'd refuse to work anywhere that cares about chain of command. Managers are for bookkeeping purposes, not commanding. If your manager doesn't let you talk to the people you need to talk to to get things done then it is a very toxic environment.

I agree with this, and disagree with the parent comment's framing of this as "going outside the chain of command", but I do think that if you have a healthy relationship and open communication with your direct manager, I can't think of many reasons not to tell your direct manager something before telling your skip-level (or above), as a courtesy and an opportunity for them to address the issue first but not because of some rigid expectations around "command structure".

Of course this isn't a hard rule, if I'm having a conversation with my skip-level and some topic happens to come up that I haven't spoken with my manager about before, I'm not necessarily going to hold back just because of that, I can follow up with my manager later. But if something's bothering me or I have some feedback or something like that, I'd generally chat with my manager about it before anyone above them.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#32

Post by tb303 »

bob33212 wrote: post #5

Everytime I have been invited to a 1 on 1 with someone high up the org ladder, I have been given talking points from the people in between

I say this with privilege, but you need to be asking why. And if you are dissatisfied with the answers, you are working with the wrong place. As you can see from other comments here, skip levels serve many purposes. If in your case it's because skip levels are used to bypass distrust of your manager, then you need your manager to address that with you honestly before you simply do what they say.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#33

Post by dwater »

1123581321 wrote: post #27
dwater wrote: post #12

I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager…

Talk to your manager about that meta problem. It may be awkward but you should push them to become a more effective manager, which they can do by pushing on their manager and skips.

I didn't intend for this to become an outlet for me to complain about the organizational problems at my employer. They were having leadership difficulties before the pandemic, which halted all growth and even shrinking of existing business. I think my manager is doing his best but that the organization is going to let the team atrophy and be absorbed by another, or at some point down the line when there's more money available reconstitute it. I'm leaving because that's what I see as the most likely future, people who disagree with me are staying and I am wishing them the best and washing my hands.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#34

Post by Godel_unicode »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #2

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vul…

> this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level.

That is emphatically not true in the general case. It certainly isn't for me with my senior leadership.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#35

Post by Godel_unicode »

908B64B197 wrote: post #23
throwit1q2e3r wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a jr. engineer, I had a skip level meeting with the director of our department (~30 people). I asked the director -- in the snarky way that certain entitled junior employees have -- what he actually did in his job. He laughed and explained that his job was to make sure senior management understood what we were doing and were onboard with why we were doing it. Nobody gave me any talking points and I was too…

It's not that snarky. Especially from someone new to the field these are questions I would be expecting, especially at a tech company (so pretty equalitarian and meritocratic where the director probably started as an engineer himself). I would also expect the career path to take to get into management to be discussed as well.

It depends how it's said. I would hesitate to correct the person who actually said it about whether they said it in a snarky way unless I was actually there.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#36

Post by edoceo »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #34
skeeter2020 wrote: post #2

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vul…

> this is impossible with the power dynamic in a skip level. That is emphatically not true in the general case. It certainly isn't for me with my senior leadership.

The dynamic exists in all relationshps regardless of (and even still in) your specific interpersonal dealings.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#37

Post by monknomo »

dwater wrote: post #28
wilde wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you requested a meeting? You might be surprised.

No, the upper level person in question is overbooked with being in charge of 1/3 or 1/2 of the company's employees. My personal opinion is that person was given too much responsibility too quickly and is in over their head. When my team came into their purview they told us they wanted to spend as little time as possible on my team, and I've deferred to that statement.

to my outsider ears, this sounds exactly like the sort of situation where you should request a meeting and highlight the issue. Not in a finger point-y way, but as an observation that your team needs more time from someone at their level

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#38

Post by war1025 »

dwater wrote: post #12

I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager…

> My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive

My 1:1s with my boss are basically useless and I think we're both aware of that.

What do people generally talk about in 1:1s?

I've never really been clear what the purpose is other than to check a box and say it happened.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#39

Post by dkdk8283 »

username90 wrote: post #8
skeeter2020 wrote: post #2

I dislike that skip levels are positioned as some sort of variation of a 1:1, as other than the # of people they have nothing in common. The 1:1 is for the employee while skip levels are all about the senior manager. We already have enough opportunities for them to set the agenda and drive the conversation. A real 1:1 is a frank conversation about early-stage (potentially bad) things and based on mutual trust and vul…

Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager, so I see no reason why you'd have to be more careful in those meetings than the 1:1 with your manager. I'd even say that if you aren't getting to meet and make an impression on your skip level then there is something wrong. They are your best bet to get promoted and if the organization tries to block that path for you then why should you stay…

> Your skip level manager is not any more able to fire you than your manager

Not in my experience. For my manager to fire me I need to be first put on an improvement plan. Skip manager can waive this and fire me on the spot, risking a potential lawsuit for the company.

Re: Skip Level Meeting Guide for Leaders

#40

Post by PaulRobinson »

war1025 wrote: post #38
dwater wrote: post #12

I would love to have a skip level meeting going 2 levels up. My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive because he asks me what my problems/concerns are, I tell him variations the same 3 or 4 things every time, and has asks me for ideas about what he/we can do to try to solve them from below since he doesn't have the direct power or influence to address them from above. Unfortunately I know who his manager…

> My one on ones with my manager have become repetitive My 1:1s with my boss are basically useless and I think we're both aware of that. What do people generally talk about in 1:1s? I've never really been clear what the purpose is other than to check a box and say it happened.

1. Opportunities for timely feedback (in both directions)

2. Concerns/issues

3. General chat

Most people forget the third option. It’s OK if it’s just time to hang out with each other.

That said, it’s your meeting more than it is your manager’s. If you want to cancel, you should. However, frequent cancellation is a signal of a problem to my mind.

As a manager, the only thing more frustrating than a 1:1 which is like pulling teeth, is a 1:1 with somebody who doesn’t want to communicate at all.

Post reply on HN