US ends era of emotional support animals on planes • Hacker News Board

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#31

Post by spaetzleesser » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:43 PM UTC

meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

“I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their pet and not having the time to drive them across the country.”

That’s what we did when we flew to Germany with our dog last year. Too many stories about pets dying in cargo. Our small dog just sat on my lap the whole time and a lot of people and children stopped by to pet the dog and give treats. I think it made the flight better for all. But we knew that she wouldn’t make trouble and wouldn’t have taken her if we had had the slightest doubt. I guess some other pet owners go on board with problematic animals.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#32

Post by pb77 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

I remember a radio host ranting that in his flight there was a lady with a pony as an emotional support animal, there was also a joke about a guy who registered a swarm of bees as emotional support animal. I wonder if that was the case that forced these emotional support animal in planes.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#33

Post by Rebelgecko » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #21

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just go off on a tangent a bit, but isn't "emotional support animal" pretty much the definition of "pet"?

Yes, but the difference is the animal is a prescribed as part of a course of treatment for someone's mental health.

Emotional support animals require a prescription?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#34

Post by masklinn » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

> So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal"

Yes, this is done to avoid the risk of running afoul the ADA and ACAA. Sadly this has gotten more and more abused in recent years.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#35

Post by 1996 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #29

1996 wrote: post #15

I will sorely regret never using this opportunity to fly home for thanksgiving with my emotional support turkey - that would later go on to provide emotional support for the whole family https://mashable.com/2016/01/11/turkey-therapy-pet-airplane/

Frozen turkeys fare perfectly well in regular checked luggage. High altitude is cold, so you don't need a cooler. One year long ago I celebrated Thanksgiving in a nation that has no turkeys...

What if I want it alive and fresh, as in the article?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#36

Post by kec » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #18

brightball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The thing that bothered me more than anything about this is that you aren't allowed to ask for any type of verification, so people can just walk in with them anywhere. Never made sense to me. At least to park in a handicap space you need a hang tag or a special license plate. Why not something simple like a special collar tag or card in your wallet?

You are absolutely allowed to ask for verification that an animal is a real service animal, but the people who have been conflating emotional support animals with service animals want you to believe that you can't. Service animals have to be licensed, trained to perform a task or duty, and be easily identifiable. Misrepresenting an untrained and unlicensed animal as a service animal is fraud and illegal.

as CADBOT says, there is no license (or even standards body who could lobby for / issue one). You're allowed to ask what tasks the animal performs, then deny service so long as accommodations are made.

The correct solution is for businesses to grow a backbone and do that for all animals all the time until people gaming the system with fake ESAs give up.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#37

Post by thelean12 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:49 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #33

Spivak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the difference is the animal is a prescribed as part of a course of treatment for someone's mental health.

Emotional support animals require a prescription?

The word "prescribe" can be used outside of a medical professional authorizing the use of something. A medical professional can prescribe a treatment of aspirin, for example. That doesn't mean aspirin requires a prescription.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#38

Post by brudgers » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

I am not a lawyer, but I have a long standing professional interest in the ADA.

It ain't over until it has been to court. The hurdle for the new agency rule is to demonstrate that this is not a violation of civil rights under the American's with Disabilities Act. For the past thirty years (almost) that's tended to be a high bar. How high? Well emotional support animals were flying because the airline industry didn't want to test it in court.

The agency rule gives the airlines additional cover. But an agency rule doesn't usually trump federal statute and the ADA doesn't explicitly delegate interpretation to ordinary federal agencies. Just the DoJ and the DoJ can be challenged in the Federal courts.

It might be over, but I wouldn't go all in betting on it. YMMV.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#39

Post by masklinn » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #33

Spivak wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the difference is the animal is a prescribed as part of a course of treatment for someone's mental health.

Emotional support animals require a prescription?

ESA don't require anything which is why the idea is easy to abuse, but ESA and PSA (psychiatric control animals) are real things, and under 14 C.F.R. § 382.117(e) airlines can require evidence of an animal being a service animal or an ESA/PSA, such as up-to-date documentation from a mental health professional of the ESA's necessity to the owner.

I expect not waving this is what the rules change actually is, because I don't think the DoT can just decide the ACAA is not a thing.

For a service animal, the airline can only require

> identification cards, other written documentation, presence of harnesses, tags, or the credible verbal assurances of a qualified individual with a disability using the animal.

Although it should be noted that only 23 states prohibit misrepresentation of a service animal, the main difference being that service animals are rather obviously limited as they can only be dogs or miniature horses (an other thing which makes me doubt the complete veracity of the article).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#40

Post by waterside81 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:51 PM UTC

meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

You can sail across the Atlantic with your dog or cat:

https://www.cunard.com/en-us/inspiration/life-on-board/pets-...