A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism • Hacker News Board

Re: A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism

#31

Post by eyelidlessness » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #21

eyelidlessness wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t recognize myself as ADHD either. I was diagnosed at 37. If I hadn’t taken a (seemingly separate) mental health dive I probably would never have known. It turns out almost all of my anxiety and quite a bit of my depression are easily traced to dopamine deficiency and (sometimes unhealthy) coping strategies. The way I explain the laundry thing to people who don’t experience it is... almost exactly your wording…

> It turns out almost all of my anxiety and quite a bit of my depression are easily traced to dopamine deficiency In cases like yours, are dopamine levels in brain actually tested (measured in a lab) in patients or is it just conjecture?

Testing ADHD is based on symptomatic and diagnostic analysis, as well as behavioral testing. Not chemical. Medicinal treatment aids validation of the diagnosis: if stimulants work well and don’t produce the kinds of side effects that people with “normal” brains experience, it can be inferred that the chemical imbalance exists and can be addressed by further treatment.

After my initial diagnosis, my first doctor who treated me said that if I’m being treated appropriately I should be able to sleep while the stimulants are active. Not only could I sleep, when I first started meds, I started taking daytime naps for the first time in my adult life. Even “taking” is an understatement. About an hour after the stimulant (at this time it was ritalin) kicked in, I would zonk so hard that I needed to sleep for anything between 15 minutes and an hour.

Re: A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism

#32

Post by eyelidlessness » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 11:01 PM UTC

whollacsek wrote: post #22

eyelidlessness wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t recognize myself as ADHD either. I was diagnosed at 37. If I hadn’t taken a (seemingly separate) mental health dive I probably would never have known. It turns out almost all of my anxiety and quite a bit of my depression are easily traced to dopamine deficiency and (sometimes unhealthy) coping strategies. The way I explain the laundry thing to people who don’t experience it is... almost exactly your wording…

Thanks for talking about the deadlock! That's what I've been facing the past years...

I hope you have developed good coping strategies for this. It’s really hard to navigate in the moment! But if you have a good structure for how you approach it, it can really help. For me personally:

- I have a very large set of (recurring, time specific, urgent, and lax) reminders

- I have very clear expectations of removing myself physically from situations that make me feel stuck, and taking dedicated and time bounded breaks

- I have a very internal/non-verbal separate monologue for forgiving myself, particularly when the harm I may have done or be doing is to myself (I’m a very verbal internal monologue person otherwise)

- I reset and recalibrate goals/ambitions/expectations frequently

- I find ways to allow myself helpful fictions and know I’m lying. (Side note: it’s worth noting that many neurodivergent disorders commonly overlap; I’m not diagnosed ASD but strongly suspect I’ll get a positive diagnosis when I’m able to seek one; lying to myself is generally only possible when I acknowledge the falsehood somehow)

- And as mentioned, I create artificial rewards that unblock when I feel blocked. Being (now based on comment feedback) hesitant to describe this as relating to literal dopamine... I give myself invented victories and milestones that are only meaningful and exciting to me, so I can carry on to the next step or stage of a thing I need or want to do

I have no idea if any of this will help. But even just getting external validation of your experience can help. It’s awful to feel like something other people find easy is difficult, when you know you’re generally a capable or even talented person.

I hope however you navigate this, you know you’re not navigating it alone and the things that seem impossible inexplicably aren’t because you’re doing it wrong.

Re: A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism

#33

Post by luord » Sun, Nov 15, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

This resonates with me far, far more than most, if not all, articles, essays, think pieces, etc, about getting things done and procrastination I've ever read. Indeed, I have a serious problem with wanting to have something be perfect when I do it, so often I don't feel like doing it. Ironically, that attitude has the result of sometimes making my work worse, since ultimately I end up having less time to do the work which can lead to sloppy results.

I'll now have that nitpicky attitude in check and remind myself that not completely perfect merge/pull requests are still work that my clients can see, and the feedback loop within them when they're not perfect from the get go doesn't necessarily have a downside, and can in fact improve communication and the flow of work. After all, a request is by definition not necessarily the work completed, but literally a request for feedback, and possibly iterating on the work already done.

I can even use a trick to mentally tell myself it doesn't have to be perfect: I can start work everyday with the expectation that, at the end, I only need to create or update a draft merge/pull request. That will get me even more easily into the mindset that I'm working to ask for feedback, not to deliver the final piece. Who knows, maybe by the end of the day the work will be good enough for a finished request, so it's a win-win situation.

And that's just one idea, that I need to put in action. I'll see how it goes.

Re: A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism

#34

Post by necovek » Sun, Nov 15, 2020, 3:13 AM UTC

Slackwise wrote: post #14

tardismechanic wrote: post #8

Perfection does not exist in the universe. Imperfections can be found in anything. Enjoying the process, while fully embracing this realization, is key.

Math is perfection. So, it depends on if you consider math to "exist" in this world.

Don't you consider presence of axioms exactly the opposite of perfection?

Instead, it's the best human mind can muster.