How Apple's Moral Compass Works • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#31

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, May 02, 2011, 3:43 AM UTC

TomOfTTB wrote: post #24

thaumaturgy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They shouldn't be at a rate that's over 50% of the total suicide rate. Why not? I'm not familiar with Chinese culture -- can you explain why working at a factory should drop a person's odds of suicide to an arbitrary number less than 50% of the national average?

Because having a job at Foxconn is the equivalent of being rich there. You have air conditioning and in door plumbing. Foxconn workers make 2,000 renminbi (after Foxconn doubled their salary to stop the suicides). That's 3 times what a normal person with a job in makes in China. This would be like a cluster of Facebook or Google employees committing suicide in the U.S.

So your contention is that they're killing themselves because they're rich and comfortable?

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#32

Post by Retric » Mon, May 02, 2011, 5:04 AM UTC

seabee wrote: post #25

TomOfTTB wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other claims are you capable of using Google? If you had the time to post this you should have the time to verify the data for your own piece of mind. As far as Foxconn the company is huge but 30 suicide attempts in 3 weeks is not normal ( http://gizmodo.com/#!5540045/foxconn-suicide-cluster-claims-... ). China only has a .02% suicide rate and most are in the rural areas ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/20…

Your facts don't support your assertions. Population of China (2007): 1,321,851,888 ( http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004391.html ) Suicide rate determined in 2007: "more than 287,000 people end their own lives every year" ( http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/11/content_609571... ) Suicide rate per 100,000 per year: 21.7 Statistically expected suicides at Foxconn per year: 206 Actual suicides in 2010: 14 ( ht…

That's a reasonable first approximation.

However, I would add that attempts are a poor indicator because there is a wide range of methods with poor success rates. EX: An increasing in attempts can relate to people choosing low success rate methods and failing.

Also younger people are far more likely to commit suicide than the elderly or vary young. However, generally employed people tend to have lower suicide rates. There is also a significant gender bias in suicide attempts and different bias in rates of suicide. Men are more likely to die on their first attempt in large part due to their chosen methods etc.

Also, suicides rates tend to cluster more than expected, both in the short and long term.

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#33

Post by SoftwareMaven » Mon, May 02, 2011, 5:13 AM UTC

zalew wrote: post #28

edderly wrote: post #16

Why Apple doesn't use some kind of MPAA style rating system? That isn't without it's politics, but at least it gives a flavor how to deal with publication of different categories of material.

not a good example. MPAA is evil, their rating system is subjective and their commitee members' bios are in condradiction to their own rules. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPQmKTAAeik&feature=relat...

So you are saying Apple does use something like the MPAA ratings...

* Posted from my iPad...

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#34

Post by Nick_C » Mon, May 02, 2011, 7:36 AM UTC

TomOfTTB wrote: post #10

trythis3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, the company is run by a comparatively moralistic CEO. Apple and Steve Jobs are not as superficial as their many detractors accuse them of being. In fact, they're among the least superficial entities in the business.

Would this be the same CEO that would fire people if they couldn't justify their job in an elevator ride? Or the Steve Jobs who denied his daughter's existence until it was painfully clear she was his (going so far as to force her mother onto welfare because he refused to support her)? Or are you talking about the Steve Jobs who paid lip service to improving conditions at Foxconn while not forcing them to improve any…

Just for general information, since it's appeared a couple of times, I'll just mention that to make someone out to be a saint is "beatify".

Re: How Apple's Moral Compass Works

#35

Post by GHFigs » Mon, May 02, 2011, 8:08 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #12

GHFigs wrote: post #5

tl;dr: professional-grade trolling

tl;dr: not everything critical of Apple is trolling.

I didn't say it was. But are you going to defend shit like this?

"And ultimately, Apple just wants people to keep calling, even if tumors are growing in their heads."