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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#31

Post by sharken »

yogthos wrote: post #5

I was told that this only happens in authoritarian regimes like China. Turns out that while everybody was talking about China exact same things were happening here in the West. It's as if the whole focus on China was specifically designed to distract people from what's happening in their own countries.

The pandemic has allowed for European governments to introduce much of the same control as seen in China and North Korea.

So it’s really not a surprise that the idea of banning encryption is on the table.

So encryption as a basic human right sounds like the way to fight this.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#32

Post by scrollaway »

emteycz wrote: post #15
scrollaway wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First step is finding a way to educate the mainstream (including politicians) on the dangers of master keys and backdoors. It is too easy for many politicians and security agencies to think that their master keys and backdoors won't ever fall into the wrong hands, that they're careful, etc. And if you point out the problem, they'll tell you they'll be even more careful. Think about it from a non-techie perspective. I…

Non-techies most certainly understand what encryption is and if you describe what 'end' in the WhatsApp notice about end to end encryption means, it's very clear to them.

No, non-techies do not "understand what encryption is". They'll understand if you explain it to them, but if you ask someone off the street what encryption is, the closest to a correct description they may give you is "it's garbled text you can decrypt".

It's hard enough to explain the easy, obvious stuff like tax brackets. You think people have a native understanding of encryption?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#33

Post by intricatedetail »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #7

So to which EU politician do I send GDPR complaint to? The EU politicians have completely isolated themselves from the common folk through their bureaucratical system.

That's the biggest problem with the EU. There is no accountability and as an individual you have no recourse, even your vote does not matter

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#34

Post by euthrow439 »

I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you.

Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daughter I unfortunately find my self welcoming this proposal. The criminals are doing laps around the police because of these apps. :/

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#35

Post by lprd »

dalu wrote: post #16

This shows that the attack was planned by the powers that be, if not planned at least not actively blocked. It was 1 guy with a weapon that the Austrian secret service was warned about. The media made it 6 people doing a huge thing, in the end it was just 1 guy with an AK47 apparently. Austrian intelligence was warned by the Slovaks about him and they let him do regardless. Just like the 9/11 stuff, they knew what wa…

Do you have any sources on this? I’m interested.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#36

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

intricatedetail wrote: post #22

The EU is slowly starting to show their true face. We probably have left at the last minute. I personally think this is an attempted assault on human rights and such ideas should be nipped in a bud and people proposing that banned from any office. My blood boils.

> We probably have left at the last minute.

If that means you’re British: the GCHQ initiated this. Nobody is more under video surveillance than you guys. Enjoy your chat loicense.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#37

Post by mantenpanther »

This makes me sad and somewhat angry. How does mass spying help in cases like the Vienna attack? If the authorities had done their work as I would expect as citizen and tax payer (the government already admitted massive failures, basically they clearly failed to act on existing intelligence) this would not have happened.

I also think this could spawn lots of Signal-like, self hostable chat-server solutions that will be much harder to spy on. So this could be a shoot in the foot.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#38

Post by ben_w »

intricatedetail wrote: post #22

The EU is slowly starting to show their true face. We probably have left at the last minute. I personally think this is an attempted assault on human rights and such ideas should be nipped in a bud and people proposing that banned from any office. My blood boils.

If by “we” you mean “the UK”, I’d like to point you in the direction of the UK’s Investigatory Powers Act, which is much worse than “we don’t like encrypted chat”: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_201...

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#39

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

camgunz wrote: post #4

We need to establish the use of encryption as a basic human right. I'm so tired of this cropping up every couple years.

The EU doesn't see free speech as a basic human right. They are of the opinion that some ideas are dangerous in and of themselves, even without a call to violence.

It is doubtful that it will see something like encryption that allows speech and communication at a distance without government knowledge or control as a basic human right. After all, if some speech is so dangerous that it cannot be posted online, then we should make sure it is not spreading to who knows what kinds of people without government knowledge.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#40

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

euthrow439 wrote: post #34

I'm in my early 40s. Up until I was ~35 I was very strongly against this, sort of like most you. Now I feel the EU in general (some member states a lot worse than others) has backed itself into a corner because of the utterly failed integration efforts, union-wide. I live in a EU nation that has seen a very high rise in violent (and sometimes frankly horrible) crime over the past decade. As a dad of a 1-year old daug…

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

B. Franklin, 1756

Yet here we are in 2020.

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