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Goodbye, Native Apps

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Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#31

Post by c-smile »

Fizzadar wrote: post #4

I don't think it's impossible to have (relatively) lightweight hybrid apps. The article focuses entirely on electron, which ships a whole browser. There are other options, such as pywebview, that use the system native browser. Still means the underlying JS bundle has to perform, which goes the same for websites too. That said, I normally seek native apps where possible (ripcord for slack, sublime), but that's also pr…

Well, HTML/CSS/JS apps can fit into 5mb size even they contain HTML/CSS/JS engine linked in.

I've started publishing Sciter.JS builds to prove that:

https://github.com/c-smile/sciter-js-sdk

Those binaries contain HTML5, CSS 2.1 + some Level 3 modules and full ES6 engine.

4-5mb of binaries is comparable with native hello-worlds of purely native Qt, wxWidgets, etc.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#32

Post by burtonator »

Here's the thing. Apple, Google, etc are trying to lock developers into specific platforms.

This is why Apple has been so hostile towards PWAs.

It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them.

There will never be a viable hybrid app platform.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#33

Post by deviantfero »

pjmlp wrote: post #9
schwartzworld wrote: post #6

VSCode is a poor example. Its a fully featured IDE, and sure it would be lighter without electron, but it still wouldn't be a lightweight piece of software. I use JetBrains which is not Electron, but also uses it's fair share of ram.

Nope is a very quite good example, because one can compare it to Emacs, vim, Sublime Text loaded with a similar set of plugins. And it isn't an IDE, rather a programmer's text editor.

I use emacs exclusively but VScode is way snappier when dealing with JSX syntax at least

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#34

Post by egypturnash »

I hate this trend so much. I just dug around in Time Machine for the old version of Evernote, after being frustrated by the Electron trash they are calling version 10. It's missing so many little touches that just magically happen when you make a real application instead of having to fake everything from inside a browser.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#35

Post by athenot »

burtonator wrote: post #32

Here's the thing. Apple, Google, etc are trying to lock developers into specific platforms. This is why Apple has been so hostile towards PWAs. It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them. There will never be a viable hybrid app platform.

> It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them.

It may look the part but it rarely feels like it.

Something like OmniGraffle would not end up feeling the same. Even Microsoft's apps on mac feel better than their web-based counterparts in O365.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#36

Post by possiblerobot »

allo37 wrote: post #25

The cheapest laptop I could find on walmart.com right now has 4GB of RAM. "Low-end" isn't what it used to be! Only techies care about things like how much RAM a program is using. End users, from my experience at least, don't really care - as long as it works.

You might be right with respect to non-techie users. But, it's not about whether it merely works. It's about what we could be doing with modern hardware if we used it as efficiently as old software had to use its hardware.

What kinds of wild things could we accomplish on this hardware if we weren't bogged down in gigabytes and teraflops of bloat?

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#37

Post by njhaveri »

juststeve wrote: post #2

Or native apps will go through a revival due to new languages, compiler optimizations and access to intrinsics and C libraries.

As a developer of a native Mac email client, I sincerely hope that this is true. At least in the Apple ecosystem, there are new technologies like SwiftUI and Mac Catalyst that should make this easier, particularly for the army of iOS developers looking to bring apps to the Mac.

Before starting my app, I did briefly consider going the cross-platform route, and I realize that it's possible to build a decent app that way. But personally, I could always tell when I used one. Little things like swipe gestures and drag and drop didn't quite work right. The extra polish, consistency, and speed of going native is so nice for things you use all day every day. With the shift to remote work, people might notice this extra 5-10% of polish more than they did a year ago.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#38

Post by giantDinosaur »

athenot wrote: post #35
burtonator wrote: post #32

Here's the thing. Apple, Google, etc are trying to lock developers into specific platforms. This is why Apple has been so hostile towards PWAs. It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them. There will never be a viable hybrid app platform.

> It's totally possible to build a PWA that behaves like a native app but Apple actively tries to destroy them. It may look the part but it rarely feels like it. Something like OmniGraffle would not end up feeling the same. Even Microsoft's apps on mac feel better than their web-based counterparts in O365.

OmniGraffle could be fine; hasn't Figma shown us the way?

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#39

Post by tluyben2 »

allo37 wrote: post #25

The cheapest laptop I could find on walmart.com right now has 4GB of RAM. "Low-end" isn't what it used to be! Only techies care about things like how much RAM a program is using. End users, from my experience at least, don't really care - as long as it works.

As a techie I mostly do not care as long as it works either, if I am not writing it myself (and sometimes even then but I care more now than years ago). However; things do not work a lot of the times; my wife is a writer, almost all my friends are non technical and they complain a lot about how crap everything is. And when I check the culprit is always lack of memory and it is always chrome (the browser and in Electron) that is eating all of it. It is miserable imho; techies can pretend the enduser does not care; maybe they should ask.

I know how to fix it for myself (I have scripts to do it automatically) but most people do not and just reboot when the system becomes too unresponsive. Not so great for 2020.

Re: Goodbye, Native Apps

#40

Post by the_only_law »

pjmlp wrote: post #20
vintagedave wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least there is a free Community Edition now. It is one release behind (so doesn't have the latest goodness, eg the LSP server for code completion), but it does let you build apps for non-commercial use or pre-income startups for free, using Delphi/C++, the VCL, etc. Ie, if you want to encourage people to use tools like Delphi, it is much more open to indie devs than it used to be. Link: https://www.embarcadero.com…

I am fully aware of it, but the damage has been done and very few will give it a second look, which is quite a produvity loss, but so is the circle of "innovation".

I've tried it a few times. The installation was very strange I remember having to reinstall a few times in order for it to work correctly.
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