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I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

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Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#31

Post by rbanffy »

felixmar wrote: post #27
qw wrote: post #24

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't move to the US and start a business. I think a software company really have only two choices. 1. Ignore patents completely and hope for the best. or 2. Have trouble sleeping, knowing that you might have to spend a large amount of money on a lawsuit that you will probably win anyway.

IANAL but i think non-US startups are also targets for patent lawsuits if they have US users. And many startups have little chance of success if they have to stop serving US users.

American companies can try all they want to sue me under US laws. It will be really fun to watch them get squashed by the local legal system reminding them US law has no standing here.

BTW, I live in Brazil where software patents are not considered valid.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#32

Post by rbanffy »

rbanffy wrote: post #31
felixmar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but i think non-US startups are also targets for patent lawsuits if they have US users. And many startups have little chance of success if they have to stop serving US users.

American companies can try all they want to sue me under US laws. It will be really fun to watch them get squashed by the local legal system reminding them US law has no standing here. BTW, I live in Brazil where software patents are not considered valid.

Oops... Hit reply too early.

But the above US companies could try to sue US residents for the patent violation.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#33

Post by micks56 »

shimon wrote: post #22
micks56 wrote: post #14

Have you been served yet? You will want a lawyer right away, since the time allowed to respond starts ticking at service. Where are you incorporated, if at all? If you are not incorporated in Delaware, do you have customers in Delaware? If not, did you advertise for customers in Delaware? I read the filing. The person that filed it is really stretching to get Delaware as the place for all the suits. I don't think tha…

I got a "courtesy copy" of the complaint this morning (via overnight Fedex). Does that count as service? I'm not incorporated and haven't thought about Delaware in particular as a place to advertise Voo2do. There are certainly Voo2do users in Delaware (and in most other places in the world). The only income I've received to date from Voo2do has been donations from people who found it useful. If you consider the cost…

That probably does not count as service. Service of process is governed by Rule 4 of Civil Procedure (in Mass and at the Federal Level). The overnight likely does not meet requirements of either Mass state or federal rules of civil procedure.

Mass. Rule 4: http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/mrcp4.html Federal Rule 4: http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule4.htm

Did you receive a summons or was it just a printout of what we saw in the TC article? Insufficient service is grounds for dismissal. The plaintiff has time to correct, though.

You should see if there are any users in Delaware. If not, I doubt you can be compelled to court there. Even if you do have users in Delaware, it is a stretch.

For everyone on YC News, this is a reason to incorporate in your home state, not Delaware. Incorporate in Delaware if you want VC funding. Otherwise, stay in your home state. If you incorporate in Delaware, or any other state for that matter, courts automatically grant personal jurisdiction in that state. Basically, that means you have to go to court there.

This is also a reason to incorporate. Right now shimon is personally liable for damages, if any.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#34

Post by paulgb »

felixmar wrote: post #27
qw wrote: post #24

That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't move to the US and start a business. I think a software company really have only two choices. 1. Ignore patents completely and hope for the best. or 2. Have trouble sleeping, knowing that you might have to spend a large amount of money on a lawsuit that you will probably win anyway.

IANAL but i think non-US startups are also targets for patent lawsuits if they have US users. And many startups have little chance of success if they have to stop serving US users.

Indeed. RIM and Desire2Learn (both Canadian) have both been hit in the last few years with seemingly frivolous claims by litigious US companies. Apparently, it cost RIM some $612 million to settle with a patent troll [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTP,_Inc. (edit: copy and paste, clicking won't work)]. I don't remember what came of the D2L case, but I think it cost them quite a bit as well.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#35

Post by shimon »

micks56 wrote: post #33
shimon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a "courtesy copy" of the complaint this morning (via overnight Fedex). Does that count as service? I'm not incorporated and haven't thought about Delaware in particular as a place to advertise Voo2do. There are certainly Voo2do users in Delaware (and in most other places in the world). The only income I've received to date from Voo2do has been donations from people who found it useful. If you consider the cost…

That probably does not count as service. Service of process is governed by Rule 4 of Civil Procedure (in Mass and at the Federal Level). The overnight likely does not meet requirements of either Mass state or federal rules of civil procedure. Mass. Rule 4: http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/mrcp4.html Federal Rule 4: http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule4.htm Did you receive a summons or was it just a printout of wha…

In retrospect, any limitation on potential liability would be nice. But I didn't originally set out to make Voo2do into a business -- the only way I get money for it at present is through donations. Are you saying anyone who wants to build and offer a web application should form an umbrella corporation for that? What about non-web software? Where do you draw the line between "personal experimental project" and "entity that needs a state-sanctioned organization around it"?

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#36

Post by micks56 »

shimon wrote: post #35
micks56 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably does not count as service. Service of process is governed by Rule 4 of Civil Procedure (in Mass and at the Federal Level). The overnight likely does not meet requirements of either Mass state or federal rules of civil procedure. Mass. Rule 4: http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/mrcp4.html Federal Rule 4: http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule4.htm Did you receive a summons or was it just a printout of wha…

In retrospect, any limitation on potential liability would be nice. But I didn't originally set out to make Voo2do into a business -- the only way I get money for it at present is through donations. Are you saying anyone who wants to build and offer a web application should form an umbrella corporation for that? What about non-web software? Where do you draw the line between "personal experimental project" and "entit…

"Personal experimental project" is just that. Only you use it. Once you let an outside person use it you have distributed in the eyes of the law. You are open to suit and are no longer within safe harbors of personal use.

If you are making something for others to use, incorporate. It will cost you a few hundred dollars per year in filing fees, but that is just a type of insurance against times like this.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#37

Post by nickb »

shimon wrote: post #22
micks56 wrote: post #14

Have you been served yet? You will want a lawyer right away, since the time allowed to respond starts ticking at service. Where are you incorporated, if at all? If you are not incorporated in Delaware, do you have customers in Delaware? If not, did you advertise for customers in Delaware? I read the filing. The person that filed it is really stretching to get Delaware as the place for all the suits. I don't think tha…

I got a "courtesy copy" of the complaint this morning (via overnight Fedex). Does that count as service? I'm not incorporated and haven't thought about Delaware in particular as a place to advertise Voo2do. There are certainly Voo2do users in Delaware (and in most other places in the world). The only income I've received to date from Voo2do has been donations from people who found it useful. If you consider the cost…

You should stop talking in public about this case. Anything you say can be used against you by them. Talk to other defendants but most importantly, find a lawyer and talk to them first.

PS: Ask pg to delete your post.

Re: I just got sued for patent infringement for operating the voo2do.com todo list

#40

Post by paulgb »

tc7 wrote: post #30

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6917941.html I don't blame the patent guys for not reading it. "Man, that sentence said "said" like 487 million times ! Pass that thing on, dude." Stamp of approval here.

I've been wondering lately why lawyers and politicians write in the indecipherable manner that they do. Is it really that difficult to write unambiguously in English, or are they just doing it for job security?
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