A bit contradictory with Apple's supposedly privacy-focused approach, no?
Of course, but they'll get a pass because "Apple's got yer back!"
Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
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Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#32That totally breaks my use case for Little Snitch: working tethered. When I tether my laptop it thinks it has free reign with the bandwidth and all of the little background processes can kill my data in a few minutes. With a firewall, I can grant access to only the processes that I need to get my work done.
Now, I guess I have to run some external firewall between my laptop and my phone. ... or better yet, abandon Apple.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#33This is one of those tough cases where software cuts both ways. Some people are smart, informed developers that install a trusted tool to monitor their traffic and have legitimate reasons to want to inspect Apple traffic. They're dismayed. Most people are the opposite and this move protects the most sensitive data from being easily scooped up or muddled in easily installed apps, or at least easily installed apps that…
Tech savvy users are not just the minority. They're also cheap. They've been conditioned by the FOSS movement to think all software should be free as-in-beer. (The people who started FOSS didn't say that, but that's what it's become.) They say they want free as-in-freedom, but since they are not willing to pay for it they don't exist. Those who pay set the agenda for everything.
Developing a truly polished operating system with a whole ecosystem of services is far, far beyond what volunteers and hobbyists can achieve. It's just too much work. It also requires focus and coordination and someone who is able and willing to say no. Without that the FOSS community rewrites everything over and over again instead of doing the not-fun parts of programming like fixing bugs and edge cases.
TL;DR: we get what we pay for. We don't pay for freedom so we don't get it.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#34That’s annoying yet pretty predictable, at least we’ve still got https://pi-hole.net/ as an option until DNS encryption becomes widespread :/
Not a pi-hole user, but what is the plan for pi-hole once encrypted dns is everywhere? Will it just be dead? I can’t really think of a way for it not to be.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#35Apple seems to do all kinds of weird networking _stuff_. For instance, during wakeup, your T2 equipped Macbook will wait for a DNS response and then use said DNS response to synchronize time via NTP before letting the user use the keyboard. Probably checking timestamps on signatures for the keyboard firmware, or something stupid like that. This only happens if it happens to have a default route. Similarly, all macOS…
Oh wow! This probably explains why every now and then when I wake my MacBook Pro from sleep it says no keyboard is connected! I thought I had some hardware problem on a basically brand new machine. Glad to hear it's only a stupid software problem!
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#36"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.
Dont pray, just dont buy Apple Products
It's a frustrating road we are headed down. Tech companies have gotten so big that they don't really have to work together using standardization anymore. Options are limited, and most are anti-consumer in one way or another.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#37I trust Apple a lot more than I trust Google or Facebook, but this clamping down of the Mac without options for power users while officially stating that the Mac will remain a Mac is alarming and distasteful on the part of Apple.
With the transition to Apple’s own chips looming, it seems like the days of “a Mac is a personal computer and not an app console like an iPhone or iPad” will be over by the middle of this decade. All Apple devices locked down completely and Apple decides the limits of what users can do on devices. This model made some sense for mobile (where restrictions were gradually removed or workarounds provided), but the Mac is going in reverse.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I install Little Snitch, it's because I trust Little Snitch to be responsible for my computer's network traffic, over and above anyone else. I recognize that this won't necessarily apply to all users or all apps, but there needs to be a way for the user to designate trust. Apple services and traffic should not get special treatment.
They provide the OS. If you don't trust them, then you shouldn't trust anything running on top of it either...
> If you don't trust them, then you shouldn't trust anything running on top of it either...
Trust, but verify.
The problem with this is that it's taking away the ability to verify. Which takes away the ability to trust.
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#39Apple seems to do all kinds of weird networking _stuff_. For instance, during wakeup, your T2 equipped Macbook will wait for a DNS response and then use said DNS response to synchronize time via NTP before letting the user use the keyboard. Probably checking timestamps on signatures for the keyboard firmware, or something stupid like that. This only happens if it happens to have a default route. Similarly, all macOS…
> wait for a DNS response and then use said DNS response to synchronize time via NTP before letting the user use the keyboard
... and what if your network is down? You can't even use your keyboard?
Re: Apple's apps bypass firewalls like LittleSnitch and LuLu on macOS Big Sur
#40"You don't need kernel extensions, we'll provide APIs for you! We won't abuse the power that gives us, promise!" ...and now Apple has altered the deal and we must pray they do not alter it further. Disgusting. Predictable, expected, unsurprising -- but still disgusting.
You understand that Apple could bypass kexts too? This is an issue of trust, not a technical issue.
Try to bypass kexts and you’re just asking for kernel stability issues and Mac customer crashes. Pushing these guys out of the kernel lets Apple cheat them and Mac users clean and easy.