Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple learned automation can't match human skill

appleinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 59 posts

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#31

Post by cm2187 »

throwayws wrote: post #29
cm2187 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's my main opposition to "AI will replace [insert any profession]". Many jobs are so specific it will never be economical to hire a team of software+AI specialist to create and maintain the software to automate that work. Plus the fact that the said specialists usually know nothing about the domain.

Which is where the push to general AI comes from.

Even assuming this will be a thing one day, you still need an IT team to integrate and maintain this software.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#32

Post by boudin »

collyw wrote: post #27
vaxman wrote: post #6

The article essentially says that if Apple can’t build reliable robots to build mobile computers more efficiently that people, then it can’t really be done. This is, of course, horsepuckey, but what do you expect from an Apple blog?

Isn't Apple the most highly valued company in the world at present? It's certainly one of the companies with the most resources to throw at the problem. That will give them a big advantage.

Throwing money doesn't solve a problem when you don't have the right people.

Took them quite a few years to fix a keyboard on their macbook line for example...

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#33

Post by numpad0 »

logicalmonster wrote: post #7

Based on what the article said, I have to ask. Is there lots of glue applied inside Apple products? Is that primarily in small devices for waterproofing? Not knowing much about manufacturing, I’d think that most people would expect parts to be secured together via solid metal screws or something other secure.

Antennas, batteries, back panels, circumference of front glass panel, metal frames for the panel, etc.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#34

Post by Dylan16807 »

cm2187 wrote: post #11
pontifier wrote: post #4

I see this as more of a commentary on the lack of people able to do the automation, and the ways automation is done currently. On a production line with 1000 different operations you'd have a thousand low skill people using their eyes, brains, and fingers to develop the assembly process. You could never get 1000 roboticists working on getting an assembly line going. I don't know how you could even find that many, but…

Well, that's my main opposition to "AI will replace [insert any profession]". Many jobs are so specific it will never be economical to hire a team of software+AI specialist to create and maintain the software to automate that work. Plus the fact that the said specialists usually know nothing about the domain.

If lack of roboticists to spend enough time on each station was the main issue, I bet 100 roboticists would have been plenty. At that rate you can pay them a lot and still save money. And after 6 months you can reassign 90% of them to a new project, while the savings continue indefinitely.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#35

Post by iamgopal »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #26

It seems to me that Apple Silicon, will eventually start with “Device on Chip” type solutions (i.e. there will no longer be a motherboard). Including vertically integrating OLED construction into the wafer as well. Similarly, vertically integrating battery construction and housing into the device body, like TSLAs battery day announcement. Between these integrations, I’m not sure there will be much remaining to automa…

whatever you are saying, that they will make, needs to be manufacture as well. Its not like there is iphone printer available on aliexpress.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#36

Post by agurk »

philjohn wrote: post #17
cheschire wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in that same vein, why haven't we focused on the infinitely easier realm of rail automation and safety? We jumped right to the hardest problem set. Probably because it's the most sensational and easiest to get broad financial support by selling people the promise of less rush hour drain.

to be fair, we do have some autonomous rail infra - Metro line 14 in Paris, the DLR in London, the Victoria Line was designed to be autonomous but scuppered by the unions.

The Copenhagen metro is fully driverless (no staff in any role onboard) and consequently runs 24/7.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#38

Post by Dylan16807 »

hhas01 wrote: post #19

Common mistake, trying to replace humans with machines. Typical of penny-pinching bean counters and talentless middle-management chair warmers. But I don’t think Apple has ever understood automation (as any 20-year AppleScript veteran can tell you), so I’m not surprised Cook’s crew has failed to capitalize. Complex automation works best when placed in the hands of skilled humans, as an amplifier of human ability. Let…

Assembly is mundane repetitive crap.

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#39

Post by DanBC »

hhas01 wrote: post #21
ricardobeat wrote: post #14

Disappointing lack of technical depth in the report. > Typical problems that arose include how Apple's use of glue required precision the machinery couldn't reliably match Aren't robots commonly used to place adhesives (even replacing welds in metal fab) exactly because they can apply it far more precisely than humans? Picturing an iPad, I'd guess the issue would have been flexibility in placing glue in 3D space, aro…

Yes, but it’s much more politically convenient for the incompetents in charge to blame the dumb machines than themselves for their multi-million $$$$ project collapsing on its arse. Steve Jobs would’ve flayed the lot of them till he got exactly what he wanted. Cook’s mediocrity simply shrugs and rolls on, with nothing learned at all. #PerfectlyOiledCuckooClock

Have you ever worked in manufacturing?

Re: Apple learned automation can't match human skill

#40

Post by hhas01 »

agustif wrote: post #22
hhas01 wrote: post #19

Common mistake, trying to replace humans with machines. Typical of penny-pinching bean counters and talentless middle-management chair warmers. But I don’t think Apple has ever understood automation (as any 20-year AppleScript veteran can tell you), so I’m not surprised Cook’s crew has failed to capitalize. Complex automation works best when placed in the hands of skilled humans, as an amplifier of human ability. Let…

> But perhaps a more logical place to start is by automating away the penny-pinching bean counters’ and talentless middle-management chair warmers’ jobs? I readed this on HN and your comment made me remember it. https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

Heh. Yeah, I did have Brain’s speculation in mind too, but right now I think we can reasonably file its long implications under “let’s deal with that new problem when we get to it”, as right now we aren’t even close to solving the problem we’ve already got.

Personally I see successful high-level automation as much more meritocratic, in that it both serves and is directed by the same individuals: the users themselves. The worst that can happen there is that you automate yourself out of your existing job; but if you can’t think of how to parlay that win into your next then your imagination picked a funny time to fail on you now.

Post reply on HN