Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#31

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

0x008 wrote: post #29

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "guys" in no way affects someone's safety. It's potentially rude maybe if someone showed displeasure with the phrase yet you persist, but no threat of harm comes from it.

Well that's easy for you to say. The whole point of political correctness is not to assume that no one can get offended, but to avoid certain types of speech which have either been proven to be offensive or where society has agreed upon that they might be offensive in some circumstances.

[deleted]

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#32

Post by gnusty_gnurc » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

insickness wrote: post #30

I have no problem calling someone by their preferred gender term and including gender-neutral language. The problem I have is that there is an ever-growing, constantly-changing secret set of rules created, not as much to make people feel better, but in order to purposefully shame those who's viewpoints differ from the current political viewpoint that all human interaction is steeped in racism/sexism/bigotry. The day…

Honestly I think it's an arcane set of rules that's meant to cement and elevate the position of the managerial/upper-class and ignore "the barbarians".

As much as the left claims to love the working class, all this cancellation stuff and hyper-sensitivity effectively disowns and demonizes the entire working class (idk, at least in my experience doing blue collar stuff, pretty much everyone I know in the city now would have an aneurysm sitting around a lunch trunk at break).

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#33

Post by dvfjsdhgfv » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

It really depends on the person. I was once working in a an almost exclusively female envirinment and it wasn't rare to receive these "Hey, Ladies" e-mails, especially when the person replying didn't bother to check the guge Cc: list for the existence of the only male employee.

What did I feel then? Amusement. I'd sometimes reply in jest something about "just our girly things" and the author usually apologized "oh I'm sorry, I didn't notice you on Cc:" which was even more amusing since I didn't really feel there's anything to apologize for.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#34

Post by bloqs » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

Im expecting some absurd woke virtue signalling and was not disappointed

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#35

Post by kevmoo1 » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

lostgame wrote: post #28

Why on earth is this flagged? This is such an important discussion. I'm also shocked by the folks here who feel they're too special to respect other people with language. I expected better of this community.

Amen. Should NOT be flagged. Be professional. Be respectful. Be thoughtful. Be flexible. Be kind. It is NOT asking too much. This is a pretty low bar – especially for "smart" people.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#36

Post by effingwewt » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

lostgame wrote: post #28

Why on earth is this flagged? This is such an important discussion. I'm also shocked by the folks here who feel they're too special to respect other people with language. I expected better of this community.

Your very comment espouses everything wromg with this. You feel it's important, so it must be.

Then you use the derogatory term 'snowflake', only you twist its meaning to call out people for not bowing to your whims, to me you are the one thinking they are special, and are too much a 'snowflake' to see the other side of the argument.

There is a huge difference between giving and taking offense.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#37

Post by 0x008 » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:33 PM UTC

adrian17 wrote: post #21

cooljacob204 wrote: post #10

This one was always a tricky one for me, trying to create an email to a bunch of people in a friendly manner without using 'hey guys.' It the phrase that feels the most natural to me when speaking to group of people. I personally have always views 'guys' as inclusive of anyone, but I get others may not. Professionally I have opted to use 'hey all' in 90% of situations because it's about as neutral as you can get. Doe…

> It the phrase that feels the most natural to me when speaking to group of people. Dictionaries seem to agree: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/guy "used to address a group of people of either sex"

While dictionaries are guidelines as to what is accepted use of a language, these accepted uses and dictionaries are no laws. A dictionary is only a snapshot of the rules which society agreed upon in the past and thus will certainly be changed in future.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#38

Post by gnusty_gnurc » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

0x008 wrote: post #22

thrownaway954 wrote: post #15

please... please stop. i really don't care for all this inclusive language crap and all it is is an attempt to shame people. if you get that easily offended by the way people talk you need to look deep at yourself and see what is the true reason for it. maybe you have deep down self trauma, anger issues or something else that needs to be sort out in therapy. btw... there is _nothing_ wrong in admitting that you have…

If you think inclusive language is an attempt to shame people, then YOU might have to look deep at yourself. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the point of inclusive language is so that people who identify as female or non-binary have less reason to be offended, and can generally feel more safe in an environment because less trigger words are used. edit: I would also appreciate that the people downvoting me would…

> If you think inclusive language is an attempt to shame people

It's not an attempt - it's used that way all the time, and the demonized are generally the ones who haven't had the privilege of attending college.

It's a great way to other-ize all the "uneducated" among us. The ones who don't live a comfortable sophisticated city existence with a service-sector job.

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#39

Post by TheAdamAndChe » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #14

I coached girls recreation basketball and found it weird (after a lifetime of playing basketball) to say "guard your man" or "find your man" etc. "guard your woman" and "guard your girl" also didn't "sound right" although that could be as a result of my bias.

Interesting one. Would "foe" work?

Re: Why I've stopped saying 'hey guys' (as a male in tech)

#40

Post by justiceforsaas » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

tomquirk wrote: post #19

thrownaway954 wrote: post #15

please... please stop. i really don't care for all this inclusive language crap and all it is is an attempt to shame people. if you get that easily offended by the way people talk you need to look deep at yourself and see what is the true reason for it. maybe you have deep down self trauma, anger issues or something else that needs to be sort out in therapy. btw... there is _nothing_ wrong in admitting that you have…

I appreciate your opinion. And maybe there is some truth to your statement. But in the professional context, none of that really matters IMO. If someone in your team is offended (and yes, it might seem stupid to you), then the dynamic of the team is thrown off. And ultimately, productivity suffers. That's how I'm thinking about it these days.

If you have a member in your team who's offended because of "guys" in "hey guys", then you need to question your hiring process, not the team dynamics.

I found that the fact these people get offended by such issues says more about themselves than the fact "guys" is sexist in some way.