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Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

pnas.org

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Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#31

Post by windexh8er »

XaspR8d wrote: post #10

Folks expecting a simple lifestyle tweak be warned, the original training is by Wim Hof and in addition to the (fairly intense) breathing exercises involves lying in snow for 30min and hiking a snowy mountain, both partially naked. While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day. Also on the day of the data co…

> While participants replaced the cold exposure element with a cold shower after they went home from the training, the techniques still took 2-3 hours per day.

I do the techniques daily and have for a few years. Total time out of my day is no more than 20 minutes (increased show length and breathing exercises). 2-3 hours is not required. While that may have been part of the study - just my observation from personally using the method for a longer period of time.

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#33

Post by mtalantikite »

whydoineedone wrote: post #14

Been doing this for thousands of years in the Himalayas. They call it pranaya

Not sure why you were down voted originally, but yes the hyperventilating breath they use is very similar to bhastrika pranayama with kumbhaka (breath retention).

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#34

Post by aaronscott »

amatic wrote: post #12
aaronscott wrote: post #3

Thank you for posting this! I rely on an IL-6 inhibitor currently, and used to rely on a TNF-a inhibitor which became less effective over time. Seeing these influenced through breathing, meditation, and cold exposure is really interesting. It would be nice to know if the changes primarily stemmed from one of the interventions they explored. Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example?

> Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example? I don't see why the researchers would lump all three treatments together into the intervention group. There is this, seems to suggest cold exposure: https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2...

Thank you for finding that. It seems like intermittent cold exposure may be the primary key then. I wonder if breathing exercises help modulate the bodies response to the cold. More oxygen available may mean better brown fat thermogenesis for example.

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#35

Post by windexh8er »

pge wrote: post #21
misiti3780 wrote: post #17

I just finished the book "Breath" by James Nestor. The book was very interesting and talked a lot about some of this but I was wondering if anyone has done any research on the book,I walked away feeling like there was a possibility that a lot of it was bullshit

google the Buteyko method (which is the subject of much of the book). Not surprisingly, the claims made by its practitioners do not hold up to rigorous testing.

Do you have a source? Buteyko has been studied and shown positive effects [0].

[0] https://buteykoclinic.com/buteyko-trials/

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#36

Post by parliament32 »

leoh wrote: post #30

I've been using the mobile device made by Heartmath lately — https://store.heartmath.com/tech/ . It looks at HRV (heart rate variability) and gives you a realtime plot, thereby offering visual feedback about how my breathing is affecting how steady the time between heartbeats is. Hearthmath calls low HRV "coherence" and getting into a lower HRV state (i.e. via regular, smooth breathing; maybe 1 in/out breath each ~10…

I think you have it backwards, you want a higher HRV, not lower. A higher HRV is healthier. Being in a calm state will have higher HRV, being stressed will result in a lower HRV. Higher HRV is associated with reduced morbidity and mortality, and improved psychological well-being and quality of life.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5882295/

https://www.firstbeat.com/en/science-and-physiology/heart-ra...

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#37

Post by mtalantikite »

The paper mentions voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous system and anecdotally from my own meditation and yoga practice I've found that I have some control over a very specific SNS response. I'm able to control piloerection ("goose bump" activation) any time I want, something I wasn't ever able to do before and found to be quite strange when I noticed myself gaining control over it.

Not exactly an awesome super power, but I have found that it's helpful for cooling the body when I'm excessively hot during particularly strenuous yoga asana practice (back when practicing around other people in hot rooms was a thing).

Note: In meditation practice piloerection is part of what is generally referred to as pīti.

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#38

Post by itissid »

From a sample size PoV, 12 does not even matter, because they are looking for specific phyisiological responses and correlations. Its also good that they don't have a causal hypothesis statement:

> These results could have important implications for the treatment of conditions associated with excessive or persistent inflammation, such as autoimmune diseases.

Because there are a lot of confounds in making causal inferences. I hope they will they do a larger N study..

Re: Wim Hof breathing technique can modulate immune response to pathogens (2014)

#39

Post by windexh8er »

aaronscott wrote: post #34
amatic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could I achieve the same results with one of the three methods for example? I don't see why the researchers would lump all three treatments together into the intervention group. There is this, seems to suggest cold exposure: https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.14814/phy2...

Thank you for finding that. It seems like intermittent cold exposure may be the primary key then. I wonder if breathing exercises help modulate the bodies response to the cold. More oxygen available may mean better brown fat thermogenesis for example.

More oxygen is not the underlying science here. Oxygen saturation is almost always at, or close to, 100%. See the Bohr Effect [0][1].

TL;DR Increased CO2 aids in Oxygen delivery efficiency.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect [1] https://respiratorycram.com/bohr-effect/

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