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Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

nature.com

31–40 of 42 posts

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hilariously naive way of seeing things. Science is never neutral and never can be, and pretending it is neutral is just saying you're fine with the current status quo. Trump actively harms science and scientists and universities, so why should the scientific community system quiet?

Because it is incredibly divisive and cheapens the journal. I'm not interested in what my doctor thinks of Biden, I just want to get rid of the damn foot fungus.

> Because it is incredibly divisive and cheapens the journal.

Pretending this is a normal election, or that Trump is normal candidate, cheapens everyone who has a platform and does not use it.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Had they limited themselves to the critique of Trump, it would be fine. But they actually take the step forward and bathe Biden in glory. He may be a good guy, all I know is he isn't Trump, and says some of the right things, ahead of an election. This could translate to absolutely anything.

Biden has been a politician for decades. It's not hard to figure out what Biden is.

It's very different once you get the top job. And Nature, as a scientific publication, shouldn't be in the business of predicting that.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden has been a politician for decades. It's not hard to figure out what Biden is.

It's very different once you get the top job. And Nature, as a scientific publication, shouldn't be in the business of predicting that.

Politicians don't suddenly change when they're elected president (it's not like the powers of the president would really permit that, either).

Nature, as a scientific publication, is probably one of the best at predicting that, given it's run by scientists, who have deep history in analyzing how policy decisions affect science.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#35
> "Joe Biden must be given an opportunity to restore trust in truth, in evidence, in science and in other institutions of democracy, heal a divided nation, and begin the urgent task of rebuilding the United States’ reputation in the world."

Straight political propaganda in a top scientific journal? Isn't that a tad over the top?

On the other hand, Iran won't bomb itself, so it's all-hands-on-deck to get that "seven countries in five years" plan back on track.

On the gripping hand, such blatant propaganda might have the opposite effect on the silent majority. We'll see soon enough.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#36
post #29

Reading that article left me worried. It's not very factual, it has many errorneous statements, and, honestly, it looks like propaganda. Seems to me like Nature is not worried about losing credability.

> it has many errorneous statements Do you have any examples?

For an organization who one would think care deeply about science, I'd say statements like this is problematic.

"With the nation’s death toll now exceeding 215,000, the coronavirus has killed more people in the United States than anywhere else."

It's problematic because it's not very clear how this number has been calculated. CDC themselves say this about their own number:

"For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death."

Also, from the same page:

"When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation."

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

So, 94% had other additional conditions (including heart disease, diabetes, and sepsis). And even then, not all cases had been confirmed/

It seems to me like 215,000 (probably/presumably) died _with_ COVID-19, but not necessarily from it.

In some countries in Europe, including the UK and some Scandinavian countries (I haven't been able to find the method for US), the number of deaths are counted in the following way:

"Deaths = the statistics on fatalities include deaths recorded within 30 days of the detection of COVID-19 infection in the individual. However, COVID-19 is not necessarily the cause of death."

https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Status-of-the-epide...

I believe this number was previously 90 days, but in my opinion, it's not a very scientific way to calculate the severity of COVID-19.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying nobody dies from COVID-19. Even numbers from Europe shows this clearly: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

But when Nature is using the number 215,000 in the way they did, it does not look very credible. Take a look at the whole statement:

"With the nation’s death toll now exceeding 215,000, the coronavirus has killed more people in the United States than anywhere else. Even adjusting for population size, the country has fared spectacularly badly. Despite having vast scientific and monetary resources at his disposal, Trump failed catastrophically when it mattered most."

To me that looks more like it's driven by Orange Man Bad, than by science.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has many errorneous statements Do you have any examples?

For an organization who one would think care deeply about science, I'd say statements like this is problematic. "With the nation’s death toll now exceeding 215,000, the coronavirus has killed more people in the United States than anywhere else." It's problematic because it's not very clear how this number has been calculated. CDC themselves say this about their own number: "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only…

Maybe you'll find it interesting, I don't know, but it looks like some numbers show that the average age of people who died with COVID-19, in England and Wales (I've heard similar numbers for Scotland and Denmark), are higher than the average life expectancy in those countries: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8821113/The-avera...

Does this suggest that getting COVID-19 increase your risk of getting older than average? Well, both yes and no, I guess. The numbers says so, but logic does not. My point is, a topic like COVID-19 death toll has become so hot that it's almost impossible to find credible information on what's up and down. We need to have more talks, more science, more data, more reason, openly, about what is going on. And we need them from reliable sources. Nature is cutting themselves out of this loop when they post something so one-sided as this article.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#38
post #5

This is tragic. Science must always be free of politics.

If only certain (Republican) politicians would learn to keep their ignorant opinions out of science then maybe that would happen. When one party goes to war against facts and science then every scientist has a moral duty to push back.

Green new deal is absent of nuclear energy and does not include anything about base load mitigation. Instead there will be magical battery storage.

The affordable care act included chiropractor and acupuncture.

California is under a strict lockdown that has been admitted in their documents that it will never return to green and the WHO is returning to their previously held statement that lockdowns hurt the poor disproportionately and do not provide ultimate success.

Masks do not work, then work, then only special types of cloth (two layer gaiters no, two layer cloths, yes).

HCQ with zinc does work in early treatments until endorsed by a party leader, opposition locks out doctors (trained medical professionals) from using the drug in certain states with no scientific backing.

Science in the political realm is non existent if it interferes with the scoring of political points.

It is not Republicans / Democrats are anti science, it is the political positions each side is beholden to that drives these narratives and then are used to make the opposing side look dumb.

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#39
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it has many errorneous statements Do you have any examples?

For an organization who one would think care deeply about science, I'd say statements like this is problematic. "With the nation’s death toll now exceeding 215,000, the coronavirus has killed more people in the United States than anywhere else." It's problematic because it's not very clear how this number has been calculated. CDC themselves say this about their own number: "For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only…

Covid-19: At least two thirds of 225 000 excess deaths in US were due to virus (from march to july)

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3948

> it has many errorneous statements

You used the word "many", do you have any more examples?

Re: Nature supports Joe Biden for US president

#40
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Had they limited themselves to the critique of Trump, it would be fine. But they actually take the step forward and bathe Biden in glory. He may be a good guy, all I know is he isn't Trump, and says some of the right things, ahead of an election. This could translate to absolutely anything.

Biden has been a politician for decades. It's not hard to figure out what Biden is.

> It's not hard to figure out what Biden is.

You're right. Biden is the warmonger who pushed an approval for the invasion of Iraq through the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, back in 2002: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhcuei8_UJM

Meanwhile, Trump is the war-shy buffoon who failed to deliver a single new war to the military-industrial complex. No wonder he has to go. War is good for business (and research grants).

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