Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

tutanota.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 251 posts

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#31

Post by mikece »

It has been argued that PRISM was more about corporate espionage under the ruberic of counter-terrorism than anything else. In the book The Shadow Factory, James Bamford points out the ridiculously low prices that were available for overseas traffic to be routed into the US and then back to a neighboring country, sometimes even a different region of the same country... anything to get overseas telecoms to route traffic through a PRISIM splitter (the allegation Bamford makes is that bribery was involved to get these routing deals in place as well).

It’s certainly a fanciful story but does anyone really doubt that the post 9/11 US government would do this?

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#33

Post by conistonwater »

daveevad wrote: post #26

The title is misleading, it appears to me, since the claim "did not prevent a single terrorist attack" isn't backed up with even a grammatically correct sentence. > a judge ruled beginning of September 2020 that not [one single terrorist attack had been stopped with the help of the NSA's phone surveillance program (sic) If you trail the linked articles you end up with this 9th circuit opinion: > The panel wrote that…

If I understood correctly(?), the claim is that PRISM data was used in only one case, and in that case it was later judged to be irrelevant, therefore PRISM data was never used to help secure a single conviction. But I'm not sure this is right, I found the article pretty confusing on the subject of what actually happened, so I'm not sure. Personally I agree with Imnimo's comment that this is just an overly confusing way of analyzing a surveillance program.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#34

Post by throwaway0a5e »

alehul wrote: post #19
jagged-chisel wrote: post #4

You'd think if it had stopped any attacks, the program's proponents would be shouting it from the rooftops. But no- nothing. Not even attempts to lie ("oh, we stopped several attacks, but we can't tell you anything about them...") PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

I have, maybe naively, always believed that the U.S. operates at a level of secrecy and complexity where dozens of terrorist attacks are thwarted every year, and that this surveillance plays a hand in it (but to admit that would hinder its effectiveness). Is it really possible we only have Maybe it is possible, in which case the U.S. has been very successful at convincing my generation it's a larger issue than it rea…

If you subscribe to a definition of "terrorist attack" that includes "someone with political beliefs I don't like possessing a handgun in violation of the law" then sure, dozens per year thwarted sounds about right.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#35

Post by anoncareer0212 »

anm89 wrote: post #11
0goel0 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you base that on?

Bush and his crew had the Patriot act written before 9/11 and were simply waiting around for a circumstance to justify enacting it. Honestly I'm surprised this is even a controversial opinion at this point. This is exactly what Snowden exposed. That these programs were as if not more focused on internal spying than anything else.

Quite an extraordinary claim, I'm surprised _you're_ surprised it's controversial: can you share a little bit more about how Snowden exposed the Patriot Act was prewritten & waiting for an excuse to be enacted?

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#36

Post by vmception »

hnaccy wrote: post #25

Why is there so little call for reform from congress and new administrations etc? Obama or Trump had no part in building the original system so why do they continue it? Is the political class as a whole 100% on board with authoritarian, privacy invading, controlling America?

Representatives don't want to be wrong if an attack happens afterwards.

It is a prison of their own creation.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#37

Post by djsumdog »

wil421 wrote: post #15

> Between 2014 and 2017, 13 Islamist terrorist attacks took place in Europe after which 24 offenders were convicted. All 24 of them - one hundred per cent - were already known to the authorities prior to the attack and had been classified as violent. Right below: > What we do need is better trained and better equipped police officers so that they can identify potential threats faster. If the violent offenders are alr…

There are also cases where the FBI will radicalize and entrap people like the Liberty City Seven.

A great fictionalized movie about these situations is The Days Shall Come (2019).

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#38

Post by qwerty456127 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #29
djsumdog wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is the only country I've flow through (15+) where you are still required to take off your shoes. It's dumb theater and the TSA is pointless.

Don't have to take your shoes off anymore if you precheck.

I don't give a uck about the shoes actually but I absolutely don't feel like unlocking my phone or laptop, even though there's nothing criminal.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#39

Post by throwaway0a5e »

corrund wrote: post #9

I prevented one terrorist attack by myself. Nobody knows that, because attack was prevented.

The government prevents thousands of terrorist attacks every year by being tolerable enough that the number of people filling rental trucks full of explosives is zero.

Re: PRISM – NSA surveillance program did not prevent a single terrorist attack

#40

Post by mattashii »

alehul wrote: post #19
jagged-chisel wrote: post #4

You'd think if it had stopped any attacks, the program's proponents would be shouting it from the rooftops. But no- nothing. Not even attempts to lie ("oh, we stopped several attacks, but we can't tell you anything about them...") PRISM is a phenomenal waste of trust and money.

I have, maybe naively, always believed that the U.S. operates at a level of secrecy and complexity where dozens of terrorist attacks are thwarted every year, and that this surveillance plays a hand in it (but to admit that would hinder its effectiveness). Is it really possible we only have Maybe it is possible, in which case the U.S. has been very successful at convincing my generation it's a larger issue than it rea…

> Is it really possible we only have Last time I checked, the USA didn't need terror plots 'against the country'; they have enough problems with "deranged individuals" shooting at schools, events, protests, etc.

Why would you label those who could be your child, parent or neighbor, and disagree violently with those who have a different opinion than yours, as terrorists against the country? /s

Post reply on HN