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2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

nytimes.com

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Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#31

Post by pjc50 »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #5
forgttnpass wrote: post #2

Is this not anxiety inducing for anyone else? Is that why I see these posts fall away quickly, or is news like this just expected now, and so not that interesting?

Here’s my issue. What amount of carbon cutting would satisfy you? If we cut by 50% and the temperature is still rising year over year do we need to cut more? How far do you want to go and how much needs to be risked Before you’re satisfied that our carbon levels are acceptable. Sorry that you feel the world isn’t following your desires and expectations but they need more than a promise that things may get better to e…

> the temperature is still rising year over year do we need to cut more

Cutting human carbon emission to zero today would still result in temperature increases over the next decade or so, because there's a planet-sized throughput delay in the system. Can't turn the oil tanker around that quickly.

The IPCC suggested target is 1.5-2C over the next century as being both reasonably achievable while not having too drastic an impact on the environment and agriculture.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#32

Post by qznc »

torstenvl wrote: post #4

It is distinctly unhelpful to keep trying to make people feel bad. People experiencing negative emotions are less capable of effecting positive outcomes. It is also unhelpful to keep referring to individual points like this as illustrative. It's hypocritical and provides ammunition to climate change deniers when they say things like "But this spring was really cold!" Weather is not climate and a year over year compar…

It depends. For quick specific actions it is a proper method to make people feel bad. Examples: "Fire! Get out!" Or "Hot September! Sign petition here!"

However, if you want people to find creative solutions to complex problems, a positive message works better. "Yes, we can!"

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#33

Post by pjc50 »

forgttnpass wrote: post #2

Is this not anxiety inducing for anyone else? Is that why I see these posts fall away quickly, or is news like this just expected now, and so not that interesting?

shrug I'm already maxed out on anxiety. Disaster is indeed expected now.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#34

Post by tremon »

Theodores wrote: post #8

I expected more from Covid, for it to be a miracle cure for global warming, what with planes grounded and people not in the same consumption patterns. But no, turning off the taps or turning down the taps a tiny bit isn't going to suddenly bring a halt to warming temperatures. Interestingly though we have some people wanting to bring emissions to a halt for climate change reasons. But, with things like Chess you have…

Why would you have expected Covid to have any effect on the current climate? Even the most short-lived greenhouse gas (methyl bromide) has a lifetime of 0.7 years, so any changes in emissions would not show up until now. And its relevance today is next to zero, since it's been banned along with many CFCs since the Montreal Protocol. The relevant greenhouse gases have lifetimes of years to decades.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#35

Post by raxxorrax »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #23
c06n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, are you insane? What fact other than temperature do you need? What other facts are you counting on to show that 2020 did not have the warmest September?

Are you insane? Temp alone is NOT proof that their is man made global warming. The world was covered in ice without humans. So the ability of the planet to change temperature inherently is self evident. All you do when you call people insane for bringing their counter points to YOUR argument is stymie discussion and polarize the subject.

> Are you insane? Temp alone is NOT proof that their is man made global warming.

Technically correct I guess. Let us just say that the average temperature is rising from year to year. CO2 levels correlate very closely with this increase in temperature.

Let's say this correlation is not sufficient evidence and we know nothing about CO2 as a greenhouse gas. What would be the next best explanation?

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#36

Post by vondro »

jfim wrote: post #28
georgeplusplus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you insane? Temp alone is NOT proof that their is man made global warming. The world was covered in ice without humans. So the ability of the planet to change temperature inherently is self evident. All you do when you call people insane for bringing their counter points to YOUR argument is stymie discussion and polarize the subject.

While denying that it's man made is a red herring, does it actually matter if it is? If a volcano erupts and the lava is coming your way, are you going to stand still because the lava isn't man's fault?

It actually makes sense for Climate Change Deniers to deny it's man made. Think about it - if it's not man made, then people don't need to adjust behavior at all since their behavior didn't cause the problem in the first place.

To them, cutting down emissions might be as inefficient solution for climate change as it is for solving the lava problem.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#37

Post by pjc50 »

vondro wrote: post #36
jfim wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While denying that it's man made is a red herring, does it actually matter if it is? If a volcano erupts and the lava is coming your way, are you going to stand still because the lava isn't man's fault?

It actually makes sense for Climate Change Deniers to deny it's man made. Think about it - if it's not man made, then people don't need to adjust behavior at all since their behavior didn't cause the problem in the first place. To them, cutting down emissions might be as inefficient solution for climate change as it is for solving the lava problem.

The reasoning is in the other direction: they're not going to change behaviour, therefore it's not man-made.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#38

Post by Theodores »

tremon wrote: post #34
Theodores wrote: post #8

I expected more from Covid, for it to be a miracle cure for global warming, what with planes grounded and people not in the same consumption patterns. But no, turning off the taps or turning down the taps a tiny bit isn't going to suddenly bring a halt to warming temperatures. Interestingly though we have some people wanting to bring emissions to a halt for climate change reasons. But, with things like Chess you have…

Why would you have expected Covid to have any effect on the current climate? Even the most short-lived greenhouse gas (methyl bromide) has a lifetime of 0.7 years, so any changes in emissions would not show up until now. And its relevance today is next to zero, since it's been banned along with many CFCs since the Montreal Protocol. The relevant greenhouse gases have lifetimes of years to decades.

My point is that even if we were able to drastically cut emissions (which is the current campaigning goal) we actually need to think a step further ahead than that, as in okay, we cut emissions, what now?

I have been reading the news on this climate chaos for decades so I am not naive enough to think that the planet will be magically restored to perfect tranquillity the minute the last burger eating SUV driver throws away their car keys and goes vegan. We all know we must cut emissions and go carbon negative but Covid has given us a glimpse as to how much work this really entails and how long we can sustain change for.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#39

Post by tokai »

torstenvl wrote: post #4

It is distinctly unhelpful to keep trying to make people feel bad. People experiencing negative emotions are less capable of effecting positive outcomes. It is also unhelpful to keep referring to individual points like this as illustrative. It's hypocritical and provides ammunition to climate change deniers when they say things like "But this spring was really cold!" Weather is not climate and a year over year compar…

Putting your head in the sand, because of your own anxiety, will definitely not help more than articles such as this one.

Re: 2020 Had the Warmest September on Record, Data Shows

#40

Post by hardlianotion »

pjc50 wrote: post #37
vondro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually makes sense for Climate Change Deniers to deny it's man made. Think about it - if it's not man made, then people don't need to adjust behavior at all since their behavior didn't cause the problem in the first place. To them, cutting down emissions might be as inefficient solution for climate change as it is for solving the lava problem.

The reasoning is in the other direction: they're not going to change behaviour, therefore it's not man-made.

I think most people, including myself, move from desired outcome to reasons why. Heck, I even do it for my mathematics.
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