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Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

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Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#31

Post by blackbear_ »

boltefnovor wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #21

I've done something a bit like this for "career days" for elementary school kids. I coded up a perl script that was basically something like this: #!/usr/bin/perl $score = $ARGV[0] if ($score > 90) { print "A"; elsif ($score > 80) { print "B"; elsif ($score > 70) { print "C"; elsif ($score > 60) { print "D"; } else { print "E"; } And I'd ask, "What do you think happens if you put in '85'? What about 10000? What about…

Look I don’t want to criticise but I’ve got to say, this is the sort of thing that makes kids hate programming. “Hey kids ready to do some super exciting math in a computer program?” Nah. I had a computer teacher who managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. The best way to teach kids programming is via programmable graphics I.e visual…

Music programming languages could also be fun. Bonus points if you can produce interesting music and interesting graphics at the same time.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#32

Post by shaneprrlt »

boltefnovor wrote: post #7

Kids should be taught programming when they express an interest, and when their brain is ready which in my non-facts based opinion is 11-13 years old. Trying to make kids learn programming without them being interested is about the parent wanting their children to be like them.

This mirrors my experience. My father was a software engineer, he tried teaching me BASIC and C++ when I was 7-8. I didn't take to it at all until I discovered programming on my own around age 12-13 when I wanted to learn how to build my own websites.

Generally I find a lot of my interests align with my parents, but I always had to discover a passion for them on my own.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#33

Post by philjohn »

boltefnovor wrote: post #7

Kids should be taught programming when they express an interest, and when their brain is ready which in my non-facts based opinion is 11-13 years old. Trying to make kids learn programming without them being interested is about the parent wanting their children to be like them.

Definitely agree with this. I knew my son was into computers from a young age, and tried to see if there was a further interest there, but didn't push it.

He's now 13 and is programming every chance he gets - but because he came to it himself, I think he enjoys it more.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#35

Post by Equiet »

boltefnovor wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #21

I've done something a bit like this for "career days" for elementary school kids. I coded up a perl script that was basically something like this: #!/usr/bin/perl $score = $ARGV[0] if ($score > 90) { print "A"; elsif ($score > 80) { print "B"; elsif ($score > 70) { print "C"; elsif ($score > 60) { print "D"; } else { print "E"; } And I'd ask, "What do you think happens if you put in '85'? What about 10000? What about…

Look I don’t want to criticise but I’ve got to say, this is the sort of thing that makes kids hate programming. “Hey kids ready to do some super exciting math in a computer program?” Nah. I had a computer teacher who managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. The best way to teach kids programming is via programmable graphics I.e visual…

I'd try to frame it in a different way. I think the best way how to get someone excited about programming is to show them how to solve a problem they care about.

Kids like to play games, so creating their own game is a problem they will likely care about. If they spent past 10 hours trying to advance to the next level, then showing them how to hack their way to the next level is probably going to get them excited. If they are stuck in a system where everyone's focus is on their grades, showing them how to hack that system will likely get them excited. Even if it involves doing some math.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#36

Post by reificator »

boltefnovor wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #21

I've done something a bit like this for "career days" for elementary school kids. I coded up a perl script that was basically something like this: #!/usr/bin/perl $score = $ARGV[0] if ($score > 90) { print "A"; elsif ($score > 80) { print "B"; elsif ($score > 70) { print "C"; elsif ($score > 60) { print "D"; } else { print "E"; } And I'd ask, "What do you think happens if you put in '85'? What about 10000? What about…

Look I don’t want to criticise but I’ve got to say, this is the sort of thing that makes kids hate programming. “Hey kids ready to do some super exciting math in a computer program?” Nah. I had a computer teacher who managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. The best way to teach kids programming is via programmable graphics I.e visual…

Look I don't want to criticise but I've got to say, this is the sort of thing that got me into programming as a kid.

"Hey kids ready to do some super exciting graphics with turtles in a computer program?" Nah.

I had a computer class based on Logo that managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. Then as I got older I actually did get into graphics and gamedev, but early on it nearly killed all interest for me.

The best way to teach kids programming is by making sure the kids are engaged, whatever they enjoy doing.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#37

Post by jrumbut »

sriku wrote: post #4

I've been frustrated by the magnified expectations of kids w.r.t. programming because they play sophisticated games compared to the pong/bricks/tetris of my highschool days. Very hard to satisfy my kids with doing, say, turtle graphics. I'm yet to try Minecraft programming (need windows machine) but that might do it for them as they're into Minecraft. I had a blip of a realization one day when idly talking to the 6yr…

That's awesome! Not sure I've ever seen such a compelling demo that started from nothing.

In general I think starting from nothing is the original sin of programming pedagogy. I think it's easier to learn by example, imitation, and extension and then learn the deeper principles once you need them.

My wish is a game that would be compelling enough to get a few app store downloads but allows for live editing of the source. Say a soccer game where you can start by changing configuration options like the ball color, then maybe you can find where goals are added in and make yours count for more, eventually basic physics like changing acceleration.

Probably not for 6 year olds, but even at the college level I'm not sure about having students start by staring at an empty editor window.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#38

Post by zarify »

boltefnovor wrote: post #25
gwd wrote: post #21

I've done something a bit like this for "career days" for elementary school kids. I coded up a perl script that was basically something like this: #!/usr/bin/perl $score = $ARGV[0] if ($score > 90) { print "A"; elsif ($score > 80) { print "B"; elsif ($score > 70) { print "C"; elsif ($score > 60) { print "D"; } else { print "E"; } And I'd ask, "What do you think happens if you put in '85'? What about 10000? What about…

Look I don’t want to criticise but I’ve got to say, this is the sort of thing that makes kids hate programming. “Hey kids ready to do some super exciting math in a computer program?” Nah. I had a computer teacher who managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. The best way to teach kids programming is via programmable graphics I.e visual…

I teach kids to code (plus other techy stuff) for a living.

Some kids love my robotics classes using MakeCode or MicroPython. Some kids love my data science classes with Python and SQL (I doubt anyone loves the Excel formula :P). Some kids love writing games in Scratch or MakeCode Arcade. Some love writing MakeCode in Minecraft EE. The one thing they all have in common is there are always kids who get turned off by the environment we're using.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#39

Post by boltefnovor »

reificator wrote: post #36
boltefnovor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look I don’t want to criticise but I’ve got to say, this is the sort of thing that makes kids hate programming. “Hey kids ready to do some super exciting math in a computer program?” Nah. I had a computer teacher who managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. The best way to teach kids programming is via programmable graphics I.e visual…

Look I don't want to criticise but I've got to say, this is the sort of thing that got me into programming as a kid. "Hey kids ready to do some super exciting graphics with turtles in a computer program?" Nah. I had a computer class based on Logo that managed to make me bored and disinterested with stuff like this, despite me being crazy crazy crazy interested in computers. Then as I got older I actually did get into…

Yeah logo and Perl are both boring as batshit and great ways to turn kids off.

Re: Teaching our five year old to code by cheating

#40

Post by hhas01 »

tarruda wrote: post #17

My kid turned 6 years old in August and is just starting to read basic words and do basic sum/subtraction math with the help of counting the fingers. I can't imagine how he could start to learn programming at this age.

“I can't imagine how he could start to learn programming at this age.”

Don’t. Instead imagine a computing environment that facilitates the basic reading and math skills he’s now attempting to practise.

Age 6 is a bit young, but by age 8 a child starts developing the capacity for abstract thought, which enables them to turn those rote-taught skills into useful practical tools which they can apply to the problems that they themselves want to solve.

Again, go read Papert’s Mindstorms. It is worth their weight in gold, if/once you can understand it yourself.

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