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Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

siberiantimes.com

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Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#31

Post by ncmncm »

vkou wrote: post #26
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any examples of people in your country receiving jail time for polluting the environment? Yes [1]. The same is true across much of the EU. Russia’s lack of rule of law isn’t exactly headline material. [1] https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/criminal-press-releases-2019

The second question I pose is actually the more pertinent one - since it would be an apples to apples comparison. From first glance, it seems to me that major polluters do not face fines, jail time, or other forms of censure in either Russia, the EU, or the US. All three of those groups, for instance, have functioning petrochemical extraction and refining industries, functional agricultural industries, etc.

It is true that all could do a much better job of incarcerating corporate officers guilty of mass manslaughter. Somebody needs to go first and challenge the others.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#32

Post by cnst »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #8
minerjoe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country do you live in? In mine, the good ol' USA, captured regulators just make it all legal. See fracking, for example.

It’s legal to dump industrial diesel into rivers in the USA?

Look into the Superfund sites in the US of A. Most of the things done in the 80s are now being cleaned up by the federal government at taxpayer's expense. (It's not uncommon to re-clean the sites that have already been cleaned before, either.) Were any CEOs of any of those companies brought to justice for the environmental pollution they have produced?!

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#33

Post by [deleted] »

rckt wrote: post #22

There's Kozelsky pesticides landfill in the area. It was started there circa 1980, 35 km to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. There were 108 tons of unusable pesticides. The spill comes from the river Nalycheva, and the landfill is on the river Mutnushka which flows into the Nalycheva river.

[deleted]

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#34

Post by eloff »

minerjoe wrote: post #5
eloff wrote: post #3

Looks like that military base dumped something yellow and very toxic into the river (or some other organization, but we only hear of the military base being in the area). I wonder what kind of chemicals fit that profile? It's nice to live in a country where doing that means lawsuits and jail time usually. I doubt there will be justice in this case.

What country do you live in? In mine, the good ol' USA, captured regulators just make it all legal. See fracking, for example.

Yet the waterways in the USA have never been cleaner in the last hundred years. There are regulations and they are enforced, imperfectly like everything.

I live in Canada where we take the environment more seriously still.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#35

Post by ves »

eloff wrote: post #34
minerjoe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country do you live in? In mine, the good ol' USA, captured regulators just make it all legal. See fracking, for example.

Yet the waterways in the USA have never been cleaner in the last hundred years. There are regulations and they are enforced, imperfectly like everything. I live in Canada where we take the environment more seriously still.

“The last hundred years” is an interesting frame of reference; why not use the last five hundred, or two thousand?

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#36

Post by epistasis »

eloff wrote: post #34
minerjoe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country do you live in? In mine, the good ol' USA, captured regulators just make it all legal. See fracking, for example.

Yet the waterways in the USA have never been cleaner in the last hundred years. There are regulations and they are enforced, imperfectly like everything. I live in Canada where we take the environment more seriously still.

I would like to see documentation of the state of US waters. Air quality, for example, has been worsening recently:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/25/study-finds-deterioratio...

And the water quality is not far behind, as it seems like every month has some new repeal of protections in order to benefit a few cronies of the current regime at the expense of national interests. For example:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2018/12/10/coal-mine-next-door/ho...

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#37

Post by eloff »

ves wrote: post #35
eloff wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the waterways in the USA have never been cleaner in the last hundred years. There are regulations and they are enforced, imperfectly like everything. I live in Canada where we take the environment more seriously still.

“The last hundred years” is an interesting frame of reference; why not use the last five hundred, or two thousand?

Hardly anything is cleaner post industrial revolution. Not only are there more people but we use more resources per person and produce more waste products. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

There are exceptions though, sewers and sewage treatment have been a great invention. And big cities aren't drowning in horse shit which was a major issue in London and New York at the turn of the twentieth century.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#38

Post by pvaldes »

eloff wrote: post #3

Looks like that military base dumped something yellow and very toxic into the river (or some other organization, but we only hear of the military base being in the area). I wonder what kind of chemicals fit that profile? It's nice to live in a country where doing that means lawsuits and jail time usually. I doubt there will be justice in this case.

Just mud can have the same effect. In any case the effect on eyes and the smell would discard a mud flood (probably).

You don't need a toxic to kill lots of animals.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#39

Post by eloff »

epistasis wrote: post #36
eloff wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the waterways in the USA have never been cleaner in the last hundred years. There are regulations and they are enforced, imperfectly like everything. I live in Canada where we take the environment more seriously still.

I would like to see documentation of the state of US waters. Air quality, for example, has been worsening recently: https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/25/study-finds-deterioratio... And the water quality is not far behind, as it seems like every month has some new repeal of protections in order to benefit a few cronies of the current regime at the expense of national interests. For example: https://www.hrw.org/report/2…

Exceptions don't make the rule though. There has been lots of information on the results of the clean water act. One example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181009115102.h...

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#40

Post by pierrec »

dredmorbius wrote: post #13

Kamchatka isalso home to a great deal of volcanic and geothermal activity. The cause here might not be human. https://youtube.com/watch?v=KILQ0M5ilIo

It's always worth raising this possibility, though it looks really unlikely in this case. Volcanic and geothermal activity has never released toxic phenols as far as I can tell. Instead you get simpler compounds like carbon dioxide, sulfate, etc. which can also be deadly but only at higher concentrations. This appears to keep killing after dilution.
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