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Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#31

Post by whatshisface »

seretogis wrote: post #11
takbw4234 wrote: post #4

Daily reminder that any young female-driven competitive venture (fashion, sports, academics, acting in the movie industry) is filled to the brim with sexual predators: coaches, judges, trainers, consultants, marketers, agents and so on. Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance. She doesn't need a gold medal or be world famous, she ne…

The problem isn't the daughter pursuing their interests, the problem is those men being sexually predatory. The solution isn't to blame the victim and try to shelter them from "men will be men", it's to fix the cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior toward women.

I feel like if there was an island in the Caribbean filled with pirates, it would be simultaneously a good idea to tell the merchant ships to stay away and to send the Royal Navy.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#32

Post by falcolas »

starkred wrote: post #29
jjoonathan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't cancel a monopoly, so the monopoly doesn't have to care. It's not a conflation, it's a direct manifestation of their power.

Serious question: if there were competing companies involved in Cheerleading - Varsity vs. Nike or something - do you think sexual predators goes away? I have trouble believing that.

If one of the competitors cared to address the issue, yeah, it would have gone down. When there's a choice, there's (more) incentive to address things that will give you bad press.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#33

Post by dfxm12 »

starkred wrote: post #29
jjoonathan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't cancel a monopoly, so the monopoly doesn't have to care. It's not a conflation, it's a direct manifestation of their power.

Serious question: if there were competing companies involved in Cheerleading - Varsity vs. Nike or something - do you think sexual predators goes away? I have trouble believing that.

Netflix’s Cheer celebrity Jerry Harris was arrested for producing child pornography involving young cheerleaders, with complaints about him seemingly ignored by the main cheer governing body.

Complaints of all kind probably go unheard because Varsity knows they're the only game in town. Of course sexual predators wouldn't "just go away", but that's not a reasonable expectation to have, but it is reasonable to expect companies to not ignore such complaints. Without a monopoly, for example, you can apply pressure on Varsity to do something about complaints by going with Nike next time or by getting Nike to do something about it.

I think the article does a good job of explaining this...

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#34

Post by watwut »

takbw4234 wrote: post #4

Daily reminder that any young female-driven competitive venture (fashion, sports, academics, acting in the movie industry) is filled to the brim with sexual predators: coaches, judges, trainers, consultants, marketers, agents and so on. Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance. She doesn't need a gold medal or be world famous, she ne…

"Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance"

The only way to achieve this is to not have ambitions and not try to be competitive. And even then you are not sure, because she still want some job.

I dont think it is good overall solution.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#35

Post by ncmncm »

blippage wrote: post #5

I'm from the UK, so I don't understand how some things work in the US. We don't have cheerleaders in the UK, because what's the point anyway? I was working under the assumption that cheerleaders were just a bunch of teenage girls doing dancing at a sports game. I never realised it was big business.

It might not be widely known anymore, but George W. Bush was on the Yale cheerleading team.

Apparently three other US presidents were cheerleaders, too, but finding out which ones seems to require opening clickbait.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#36

Post by gwd »

What's somewhat ironic about the "monopolies lead to absentee landlords" theory is that competition can sometimes have exactly the same effect, if the difference in quality isn't immediately obvious to the consumer.

Imagine this story instead: There are two companies, A and B, which are competing (among other things) for gyms to sign up with them. Company A requires extensive background checks, inspections, and lots of other things to make sure their programs are free of sexual predators. These are effective, but are expensive and invasive, and gyms really don't like them. Company B is far more lax; and so gyms start to go over to Company B. A is forced to lower their standards in order to continue competing.

Yes, in theory A could try to advertise that they're safer; but suppose (hypothetically) that the economics makes it infeasible to advertise directly to the end-consumers, leaving gyms to do it; and gyms as we've seen have a short-term advantage to just going with the lower standards and not mentioning that particular difference in their advertising.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#37

Post by GeoAtreides »

takbw4234 wrote: post #4

Daily reminder that any young female-driven competitive venture (fashion, sports, academics, acting in the movie industry) is filled to the brim with sexual predators: coaches, judges, trainers, consultants, marketers, agents and so on. Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance. She doesn't need a gold medal or be world famous, she ne…

Regarding sports: If it's not sexual predators, it's just plain old emotional and physical abuse. Sending your daughter to gymnastics means condemning her to abuse of all kinds.

For example:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53509107

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/sports/olympics/gymnastic...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/300071427/an-insidious-culture...

https://theconversation.com/winning-at-all-costs-how-abuse-i...

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#38

Post by takbw4234 »

starkred wrote: post #22
takbw4234 wrote: post #4

Daily reminder that any young female-driven competitive venture (fashion, sports, academics, acting in the movie industry) is filled to the brim with sexual predators: coaches, judges, trainers, consultants, marketers, agents and so on. Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance. She doesn't need a gold medal or be world famous, she ne…

Are you seriously suggesting that we keep our daughters out of fashion, academics, sports, and movies as that is the only way to keep them from being raped? > Do not ever put your daughter in a situation where she can be pressured by older men to do what they want in order to advance Are you also suggesting that we don't let her work at a FAANG company? Many of us are 'pressured' by older men to advance, if you exten…

> Are you seriously suggesting that we keep our daughters out of fashion, academics, sports, and movies as that is the only way to keep them from being raped?

I'm suggesting you should outright tell them that it's very likely that at some point some guy will try to demand sex from her and strongly suggest that she should GTFO and call you and/or the police asap in that case. She will not only be protecting herself but all other potential victims and that's worth more than any prize she could get.

btw, as someone else said: this also happens (a lot more than acknowledged) with boys and older (wo)men. It's apparently less common, though.

> Are you also suggesting that we don't let her work at a FAANG company?

Tell her it's OK to work somewhere else if the only way to get there is to fuck the interviewer. But somehow I imagine that's not the only way to get a job there. Also, call the police etc.

> Many of us are 'pressured' by older men to advance, if you extend 'pressured' to mean 'doing the job that you've been hired for.

What?

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#39

Post by watwut »

jacobwg wrote: post #21
seretogis wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't the daughter pursuing their interests, the problem is those men being sexually predatory. The solution isn't to blame the victim and try to shelter them from "men will be men", it's to fix the cultural acceptance of sexually predatory behavior toward women.

I agree with what you're saying on all points, but there's a different parallel discussion around safety and situational awareness that I believe the OP was referring to. Essentially, sexual predators looking to abuse children will go wherever the children are, be that schools, churches, athletics, social media, online games, and so on. Additionally, certain situations have power dynamics weighted heavily in the dire…

Situational awareness the way you described it means a girl must avoid ambitions and competitive situation.

The issue with "properly handle them if they arise" is that ability to properly handle things strongly depends on whether complains are taken seriously (ideally long before it all escalates to high abuse) or not.

Re: Cheerleading, Monopolies and Sexual Predators

#40

Post by ncmncm »

theonemind wrote: post #18
blippage wrote: post #5

I'm from the UK, so I don't understand how some things work in the US. We don't have cheerleaders in the UK, because what's the point anyway? I was working under the assumption that cheerleaders were just a bunch of teenage girls doing dancing at a sports game. I never realised it was big business.

I think Americans have crazy in their DNA. It mostly got (re)populated by people who sailed crossed an ocean to start with nothing in the new world, usually for religious freedom, sometimes for opportunity, selecting for risk-takers and other cross-linked characteristics. I'm American, by the way.

Often enough, as the alternative to prison.

All humans have crazy, and believe in explicitly made-up things. The best believe in Justice or Mercy, some both at the same time. Many more believe in King and Country, Capitalism, or Counter-terrorism, some all three.

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