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Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

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Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#31

Post by simplegeek »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #15

I had the pleasure to spend a few years with an incredibly creative family, in all domains (family unit consisted of nobel prize winner, renowned academics, award winning authors, artists), and the one thing which always stood out to me was how they had such a deep culture of rewarding curiosity, thinking, and exploration. I have no idea how conscious it was on the family's part, but it seemed like everyone in that f…

That's valuable, thanks for sharing.

I would also be very interested in knowing more about how the parents of those noble-prize winners, renowned academics, and award winning authors raised them :)

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#32

Post by EvanAnderson »

tboyd47 wrote: post #2

Show them by example how to be skeptical without accusing people of lying, and mention often the many reasons why people say things that might not be completely true. Also, you need to make sure you yourself don't lie to them. A lot of parents still teach their kids to believe in Santa Claus. I know this is one of those cultural sacred cows, but I strongly think this should not be done. Kids need to be able to trust…

My wife and I agreed to be rigorously honest with our daughter. When "Santa" came up I was initially very uncomfortable with the lie.

After discussing it with my wife we opted to go on with the lie under the conditions that it not be used for any kind of negative reinforcement-- none of the "Santa is watching you..." kind of stuff-- and that the "reveal" needed to be handled appropriately.

When she does deduce the lie the plan is to explain to her as such:

- It's a tradition that is passed down to bring joy to children. It allows parents to give gifts in a way that carries no expectation of thanks or praise.

- She is now in on the "secret". It's her responsibility to guard the secret the same way her parents did before her. She knows what joy it brought to her and she shouldn't spoil that joy for others.

- We do not lie to her, as a rule. We took this very seriously and thought hard about it. We decided the joy it would bring to her, and to the people she might one day be "Santa" for, was worth betraying her trust in this case.

I still don't feel great about it, but I can live w/ myself.

The little girl is 7 right now. She has said stuff like "I think Santa is really you and Mom". She also questions that conclusion, though, because because she says, effectively, that she doesn't have evidence for it. (I need talk about about Occam's razor and the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... >smile<)

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#33

Post by Bandrsnatch »

The answer is to put them into situations where they have to think on their own. Also, lots of board games, word games, and role playing games. Always ask the child why something happened the way it did and then give them hints to think about. Read to them and ask them questions about what is happening in the book.

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#34

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

glitchc wrote: post #28
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #15

I had the pleasure to spend a few years with an incredibly creative family, in all domains (family unit consisted of nobel prize winner, renowned academics, award winning authors, artists), and the one thing which always stood out to me was how they had such a deep culture of rewarding curiosity, thinking, and exploration. I have no idea how conscious it was on the family's part, but it seemed like everyone in that f…

Wow that's lovely. How does one work around the stresses of daily life to replicate that?

Certainly beats me, but I think it helped that for both parents this WAS really their source of income (teaching and writing), and that they had gotten to the point that doing this stuff was also their way to cope with the stress of daily life. Like, with cooking, everyone was involved, or when they'd watch a movie, it was a family affair with a healthy amount of commentary or analysis. It's hard to explain, but its as if everyone was always "thinking", and they all had fun doing it.

And it may also sound almost obnoxious by just describing it this way, but it truly felt almost joyous around them. It's like they made it super fun to ask questions, think about things, explore creative endeavors...

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#35

Post by rlonn »

I make up outrageous stuff all the time and will only come clean after some pressuring from the kids. Either it's worked wonders or my 6-year old is just a natural because she takes nothing for granted!

Her teacher tried to show her that it's ok to make mistakes because it's a natural part of learning. She said "Look at your little brother; he can't walk yet but he's trying and trying and falling all the time. But eventually all those falls will have taught him to walk!"

My daughter considered it, then looked her teacher in the eye and replied "we don't know that yet".

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#36

Post by riffraff »

InvaderFizz wrote: post #13
circlefavshape wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree about Santa Claus fwiw. This is culture-specific, but here (Ireland) he's an integral part of Christmas, and of the excitement about Christmas that kids experience. Santa Claus is the only lie I've ever consciously told my kids. By doing so I've given them access to a great deal of joy and fun, both individual and communal. Should I have deprived them of that because I wanted be absolutely consistent, o…

This will end up being a personal decision that each parent makes. Much like the previous commenter, my wife and I made a conscious decision to separate myth from fact. Everything fictional is in "stories." I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story. That said, we can do all sorts of fun imaginative things with story characters because we know they are…

> I never want to be in the position where I consciously lie to my son, so Santa Claus is very clearly a story.

I find this interesting: do you believe there is something intrinsically bad in the lies?

Normally, I would think they lead to lack of trust, but I don't seem to remember children losing trust in their parents when they discovered _they_ are really Santa Claus.

I mean, it seems to me that not all un-truths are created equal.

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#37

Post by tlarkworthy »

My wife makes low effort stem activities for kids on youtube. Like dungeons and dragons-lite https://youtu.be/RHyAGwUOhkA . It's more for 4-6 year olds but my children seem to be very strong on experiment design compared to other kids their age. We very much push a narrative of "Let's find out"

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#38

Post by tmaly »

animationwill wrote: post #26
tmaly wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think there is something important about cultivating curiosity. This whole question got started in my mind after recently reading the book A Mathematician's Lament. The comparison in the book is along the lines of memorizing methods and facts verse exploring ideas with the mind. It's this idea of pursuing anything interesting just for the sake of it.

I've watched several lectures on the subject. Teaching isn't learning, and some of the best teachers rather motivate children to learn on their own through internal or external motivation Could you elaborate on the insight you learned from "A mathematican's lament"?

What I took away from A Mathematican's Lament ties back to 2001 after the dotcom boom.

  I made an acquaintance with a retired math professor.   We had some long discussions about education.  He had stated he kept his kids out of school as long as he could.  It was his view that much of the structure of the public education taught your child not to think.  His son eventually went on to get a PHD in theoretical physics if is any reflection on his methods.
The book itself is more focused on math, but the general idea not quite different from education in general:

"So how do we teach our students to do mathematics? By choosing engaging and natural problems suitable to their tastes, personalities, and levels of experience. By giving them time to make discoveries and formulate conjectures. By helping them to refine their arguments and creating an atmosphere of healthy and vibrant mathematical criticism. By being flexible and open to sudden changes in the direction to which their curiosity may lead. In short, by having an honest intellectual relationship with our students and our subject."

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#39

Post by rlonn »

tboyd47 wrote: post #2

Show them by example how to be skeptical without accusing people of lying, and mention often the many reasons why people say things that might not be completely true. Also, you need to make sure you yourself don't lie to them. A lot of parents still teach their kids to believe in Santa Claus. I know this is one of those cultural sacred cows, but I strongly think this should not be done. Kids need to be able to trust…

I beg to differ about the lying. Do lie about unimportant things, let them try and figure out the lie, then confess (regardless of whether they figured it out or not). It becomes like a game, and if you do it right, in a lighthearted way, they will also trust you when it counts.

Re: Ask HN: Teaching kids how to think?

#40

Post by yboris »

I can highly recommend philosophy. I have not researched this area, but I am sure there are other organizations that encourage kids to become more reflective and to not jump to quick conclusions while thinking.

Here's one: https://www.paradoxlab.org/

What's praise-worthy about this initiative is philosophy Ph.D. - level organizers: https://www.paradoxlab.org/our-team-1

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