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When Fonts Fall

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Re: When Fonts Fall

#31
Question: Is there some reason the entire set of Unicode reference glyphs can't be used as a fallback font? Sure, this would render various things wrong (e.g. Arabic, although Arabic is common enough that you're likely to have a font for it installed so this wouldn't come up), but why couldn't this be done as a better-than-nothing fallback?

Re: When Fonts Fall

#32
post #2

Hey, that's Marcin Wichary! He's the creator of GUIdebook, a really nifty desktop GUI comparison site. It hasn't been updated in almost a decade and a half, but it's still really neat. https://guidebookgallery.org/

He also coded quite a few interactive Google doodles[0].

[0] https://medium.com/@mwichary/stanislaw-lem-on-google-s-homep...

Re: When Fonts Fall

#33
post #15

I'm on ubuntu and see tofus a lot. Is there some way to make it use the same fallbacks mac/windows use? For example stuff in this article doesn't render well for me (see the caption of the image): https://imgur.com/a/aFDSKyG

It's because on ubuntu you have a simple and "free" choice in what language support to install - install more fonts (spend some disk space) to get better language support.

It is rational that you only need to spend resources on installing this, if you need it - you can save a few hundred megabytes, at least.

Maybe fonts-ancient-scripts is the one you need here.

Re: When Fonts Fall

#34
Outlook had a weird fallback in its CSS, instead of sans-serif it had "sans-serif", so some would look for a font called sans-serif, not just use the default sans-serif font.

Re: When Fonts Fall

#35
post #34

Outlook had a weird fallback in its CSS, instead of sans-serif it had "sans-serif", so some would look for a font called sans-serif, not just use the default sans-serif font.

Outlook now uses the Chromium engine as it renderer (instead of MSHTML) so I guess it doesn't do this anymore?

Re: When Fonts Fall

#36
post #26

> font-family: Joanna, Helvetica Now, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; Why would someone fallback from a serif font (Joanna) to Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif?

Perhaps they did it in order to make it very obvious when fallback has occurred, for illustration purposes.

Not a bad way to see it IMHO.

Re: When Fonts Fall

#37
I can't see a ninja emoji, but at least there are hieroglyphs. I remember thinking whoever needs all those weird things in the 128 char maps of the C64... now the landscape of glyphs is so massive I can't hope to take it all in...

Re: When Fonts Fall

#38
post #7

Really cool article. But over the past few years/decades, as glyphs have exploded in number, I've been finding myself wanting a totally different system of font definition. I want fonts to be made out of just a handful (at a minimum) of primitives -- e.g. here's a vertical stroke, a horizontal stroke, diagonal strokes, what various serif endings look like, here are what the bowls of letters look like, etc. An entire…

> I want fonts to be made out of just a handful (at a minimum) of primitives ... > the idea being that there's a "default", boring, generic universal font template that covers all glyphs > a type designer simply modifies parameters Have you looked through the Unicode code charts lately and really thought about how many primitives you'd need in order to create glyphs not just for Latin/Cyrillic/Greek, but also for Ara…

But if you want to do the traditional thing (design a separate glyph for every code point), isn't that still a similar amount of work?

I'm not that deep into designing typefaces, but I'd expect that many designer already work in a similar mode like GP suggested. The only difference is that you'd encode the ruleset instead of the outcome.

Re: When Fonts Fall

#39
post #15

I'm on ubuntu and see tofus a lot. Is there some way to make it use the same fallbacks mac/windows use? For example stuff in this article doesn't render well for me (see the caption of the image): https://imgur.com/a/aFDSKyG

fonts-noto seems to work (https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/fonts-noto)

Re: When Fonts Fall

#40
post #17

> But the internet leaves no room for someone with a pencil. I've never personally seen it done, but couldn't you do this with the Unicode Private-Use Area? Assuming you have your own blog where you control the CSS, you could sprinkle in a few private-use codepoints, and then add a custom web font to the CSS font fallback that defines glyphs for those same codepoints. (I know putting a document with Private-Use codep…

This is generally a bad idea for accessibility reasons: • Screen readers won’t be able to do anything with it; • Some mobile users especially will turn off web font loading; • Even if custom fonts are enabled, it’s not terribly uncommon for them to fail to load for any number of reasons; • It’s best for performance if you can do something like `font-display: optional` or `font-display: fallback`; but if you are actua…

Sure, but all of those negatives are also true of the thing you’d use in place of a private-use codepoint: an inline-reflowed image.

Private-use codepoints at least have the advantage over inline images of being “opaquely” copy-and-paste-able into other documents, machine-read, etc. Any system that works in term of Unicode text will pass along the private-use codepoints in the stream, where it might strip higher-level out-of-band features like images.

As such, private-use codepoints are the analogous feature to the .notdef glyph in fonts, but for machine semantics rather than for human comprehension. In both cases, the “reader” (human/machine) gets something that it knows is there but doesn’t recognize, but knows is valid, and can opaquely be preserved and passed along, and potentially “made legible” through the lens of a different eye than theirs.

One place I would see this as being useful is in the display of unique not-yet-formalized emoji in chat systems. Copy-and-pasting such “text” out of the system would just get you opaque PUA codepoints; but if you emailed such “text” to somebody, and then they copy-and-pasted it back into the chat system, they’d see the same emoji you saw originally. It’s like a public URL representing a private document that you have to be logged into the relevant system to “access.”

—————

The real negative of the Private-Use Area codepoints, from a conservationist/archivist perspective, is that unlike HTML images that each have a distinct—if opaque—URL, the Unicode Private-Use Area is quite limited, and so prone to collisions in usage.

If the Consortium had instead come up with a stringing scheme such that any private-use glyph was actually formed from a sequence of private-use combining codepoints [sort of like the flag combiners] to form e.g. a full encoded UUID representing the PUA codepoint, then various organizations could actually generate private non-colliding codepoints without a need for registration using e.g. UUIDv4, and then be able to rely on the assumption that such codepoints will only have semantics under their private system—and any other system that wants to be explicitly compatible with their system; rather than those codepoints potentially having other, incompatible meanings in other systems that just happen to reuse them, as happens today.

Interestingly, such Private-Use UUID codepoint-sequences could then later be “adopted” into Unicode through a formal process. People who had created documents that used such meta-codepoints could register them with the Consortium, where the Consortium would 1. create “official” codepoints for those same semantics; and 2. ship a regularly-updated database file mapping meta-codepoints to later officially-registered codepoints. One pass of Unicode normalization would then involve using that database to replace private-use UUID codepoint-sequences with their registered full codepoint.

Basically, this would take the thing that happened as a series of one-off events with Unicode codepage embeddings, and turn it into a continuous ongoing fine-grained process that anyone can take advantage of.

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