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The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

pointersgonewild.com

31–40 of 63 posts

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#31
post #2

Software development just isn't mature enough yet. A bug-free, stable version of an IDE from 10 years ago would be much less pleasant to work with than the flaky version with all the features that have been invented in the intervening years.

I know of several programmers still running Visual Studio 6 because of how much more pleasant it is to work with than any modern VS version due to its responsiveness. That's without it even being bug free.

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#33

I don't think the rant about Ubuntu Unity is fair. If anything, Ubuntu 18.04/20.04 LTS releases based on Gnome shell are serious regressions in so many ways (FF not opening new windows on top, std menu missing wtf, etc etc) that I'm considering something KDE-based next.

Well Unity sucked and Gnome 3 also kinda sucked. These are relative terms - I only compare them to what existed at the time.

Right now I'm using Ubuntu Mate 20.04 since Ubuntu 20.04 won't run on my machine. After a fresh install it just boots up into a black screen, and I can't ctrl-alt-f2 my way into a terminal, etc.

I've always found KDE pretty decent.

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#35
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C has had plenty of updates, see my reply.

Stable is not frozen. Yes, C got updates, it doesn’t mean they introduced large sets of features, which is what this thread is about. C did not incorporated much things over the years, unlike C++ for example.

The introduction of the C11 memory model was a huge change. Superficially, only a small amount of features was added, but the impact on writing parallel/concurrent code in a portable way is hard to overstate.

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#36
post #30
post #2

Software development just isn't mature enough yet. A bug-free, stable version of an IDE from 10 years ago would be much less pleasant to work with than the flaky version with all the features that have been invented in the intervening years.

Visual c++ 6 circa 1998 was the pinnacle of responsive IDEs, and was more responsive in 2000 on 2000 hardware than the the visual studio 2013 o last used in 2015 - are new versions any better, or so you still wait a couple of seconds when pressing “run” just for the IDE to figure out that no compiling needs to be done?

Yes, so much this.

My thoughts on Eclipse the entire time I used it was "why can't this be as fast and reliable as VB6?"

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#37
post #14

> There is probably some truth to the idea that many newcomers will go for the latest features. However, on the flip side, I’ve been wondering if there can’t be a competitive edge in designing a language that is minimalistic, stable and slow to evolve by design. That's exactly how I see Go, and why I personally use it, even though it has clear limitations and can be frustrating at time. And the language get quite a l…

Agreed. Also, Clojure. It’s one of the most stable languages I know of that is actively developed. It’s refreshing to install a 5 year old library and have it just work. In many cases such libraries aren’t abandoned; they’re just done. That’s a rarity in other languages I use.

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#38
post #15
post #14

> There is probably some truth to the idea that many newcomers will go for the latest features. However, on the flip side, I’ve been wondering if there can’t be a competitive edge in designing a language that is minimalistic, stable and slow to evolve by design. That's exactly how I see Go, and why I personally use it, even though it has clear limitations and can be frustrating at time. And the language get quite a l…

> > a language that is minimalistic, stable and slow to evolve by design. The upper case languages. C, AWK, SQL, COBOL, FORTRAN (yes yes I know the latter two like to be written in mixed case these days). Also Ada ... hmm, perhaps not so minimalistic. And Scheme.

ARNOLD C?

Re: The Need for Stable Foundations in Software Development

#39
post #14

> There is probably some truth to the idea that many newcomers will go for the latest features. However, on the flip side, I’ve been wondering if there can’t be a competitive edge in designing a language that is minimalistic, stable and slow to evolve by design. That's exactly how I see Go, and why I personally use it, even though it has clear limitations and can be frustrating at time. And the language get quite a l…

Agreed. Also, Clojure. It’s one of the most stable languages I know of that is actively developed. It’s refreshing to install a 5 year old library and have it just work. In many cases such libraries aren’t abandoned; they’re just done. That’s a rarity in other languages I use.

Right on, and this also applies to Common Lisp. I often use very old CL libraries, not modified in a long time because they are “done.”
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