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Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

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Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#31

Post by stingraycharles »

wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

To turn this in a more broad discussion, are there any examples of “great” corporate structures for tech firms that scale well? Google has its problems (unwanted side effect being abandoned projects because of how they promote internally), I’ve heard quite a few bad things about Netflix as well. Apple and Microsoft seem to be faring quite well in this regard?

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#32

Post by wincy »

ilamont wrote: post #27

I reported a violation of Amazon's community guidelines and Seller TOS for a popular electronics product I purchased earlier this month (details: http://leanmedia.org/amazon-is-broken/ ). Here's the thread with support: Me: Hi. The box for this product contained a card that says "Amazon $20 gift card" and looks like a gift card, but the back says I have to give a 5 star review and send my order information to an outl…

I wrote a 1 star review for similar behavior and my review was removed. Amazon is either corrupt or stupid.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#33

Post by sidlls »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #15
Waterluvian wrote: post #12

Do large companies basically create an “eggs all in one basket” risk? If the market supplied by Amazon was instead supplied by 10 smaller companies, the attack surface would be higher but the impact would be lower, right? Feels like large corporations could be seen as a national security risk (and not just “guns and ammo” security but “economic stability” security)

Amazon already has many competitors for their retail business. Costco, Target, Home Depot, Lowes, Bed Bath Beyond, Walmart, eBay, Overstock, Wayfair, Aliexpress, etc. The barrier to entry for retail is very low, and reflected in the low profit margins.

Let’s compare like to like, though. In theory anyone could start a site to provide a marketplace for sellers for $5/month in hosting and maybe a few hundred bucks in upwork costs for standing up a php e-commerce platform. In practice the cost to compete with Amazon is much higher.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#34

Post by ilaksh »

I'm sure it's just a few rogue staffers rather than being a structural issue.

Because of course it's not problem for the company that owns and controls the marketplace to compete with most of the products in it. It's only a few bad apples.

That was sarcasm by the way.

There is a sane alternative and it's called distributed protocols.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#35

Post by kome »

lallysingh wrote: post #10
kome wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is a soviet union cybernetics wet dream. Jokes side: Do you see society coming to realize that a similar system can actually implement a planned economy for real?

Who takes the hit when the demand projections are off?

true, at the same time nowadays the state and the central bank are already taking the hit, at the place of the private economy.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#36

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

> Why is this not a condemnation of Amazon?

this is a feature unique to capitalism not just Amazon.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#37

Post by Pfhreak »

wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

Not only do they work their employees hard and offer limited benefits, they tightly constrict what they can say and what they can do outside of work.

For instance, want to grab a couple buddies and do a game jam? That's against the rules and could result in you being disciplined.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#38

Post by _qwfv »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #36
wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

> Why is this not a condemnation of Amazon? this is a feature unique to capitalism not just Amazon.

I agree with you, but even among capitalists Amazon is uniquely brutal to work for.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#39

Post by wegs »

stingraycharles wrote: post #31
wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

To turn this in a more broad discussion, are there any examples of “great” corporate structures for tech firms that scale well? Google has its problems (unwanted side effect being abandoned projects because of how they promote internally), I’ve heard quite a few bad things about Netflix as well. Apple and Microsoft seem to be faring quite well in this regard?

Last I looked, Microsoft's culture was toxic -- much more so than Amazon, Google, or most any other major tech organization. A ton of in-fighting, and decisions made for political reasons. They were working hard to clean it up, but I'm not sure how far they got.

Organizational design is a complex problem. It's like finding a great employee or a great spouse. They don't exist; it's a question of fit-to-function. Linus Torvalds would be a lousy doctor, and my doctor would be a lousy programmer. You really can't get everything. If you try, you fail. It's a question of aligning organizational structures to what you're trying to do. If you're running a sweatshop in India like a corporate R&D lab, or vice-versa, you're gonna fail.

I would argue Amazon has a great corporate structure which scales well for the purpose it's designed for. Amazon has been winning for alignment to profit/growth, for innovation, for customer-focus, and loses on the employee sweatshop front. That ain't bad. I think it's cracking a bit under COVID19, but at least for two decades, it's done really well for both customers and growth.

Google was a great org structure for its first decade, and then grew complacent in hiring, and when bad employees came in, it started failing in virtually everything else; I'm not sure it's coming back, but I hope it does. For now, it's been sailing on its (very significant) momentum, but that eventually wears off. It doesn't seem to have the right executive team in place anymore, though, so I'm not sure how it might come back.

Re: Amazon staffers took bribes, manipulated marketplace, leaked search algorithms

#40

Post by wegs »

Pfhreak wrote: post #37
wegs wrote: post #26

I think one of the problems Amazon suffers -- and this is not a condemnation of the company as a whole -- is that it treats employees like garbage and runs a sweatshop. There is zero loyalty among Amazon employees I know. Some are very highly-compensated sweatshop workers, but sweatshop workers nonetheless (a lot of fintech and quant work the same way, and even more extreme -- you get a lot of money, but you have no…

Not only do they work their employees hard and offer limited benefits, they tightly constrict what they can say and what they can do outside of work. For instance, want to grab a couple buddies and do a game jam? That's against the rules and could result in you being disciplined.

And after you leave. They have nasty non-competes, and they do sue employees on the way out the door. Even when they're wrong, they're right; threat of cost of lawsuit is enough to deter 95% of their employees.

I didn't want to work for Amazon in part for that reason.

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